Help with potential SBR build

[CupOfJoe90]

Well, it looks like i'm being converted to the 6.5 world. I've already got a 300 blk SBR (8.5") that i'm comfortable hunting with out to about 150 yards, but i'm looking for something with more reach and potency, both in the woods and at the range. I will be hunting mostly suppressed, so keeping the OAL of the rifle short is important to me. I've got a registered SBR lower begging to be built out, and have considered doing a Grendel SBR. It looks like the IDEAL length for the 6.5 is 18"-20", but I see plenty of shorter builds with strong performance (accuracy and velocity).

What are the hoards thoughts on a 12.5" SBR in 6.5? Basic math says I should be able to push 2350-2450 FPS on most 120ish gn loads, giving something like the 123 gn Hornady SST an effective killing range of around 400 yards assuming a minimum expansion threshold of 1800 FPS. I'm hunting in the southeast, predominantly in South Carolina, so shots further than 250ish yards are RARE, with hunters in my area shooting something like 115 yards on average to harvest a deer/hog.

If the above checks out with your knowledge, what are the common rounds being used for hunting right now? I prefer an already loaded round, so the Hornady SST's are appealing, is there anything better or else that I should be looking at? I'm hoping to catch one of Faxons soon-to-be released 6.5 barrels, which i'd imagine, given the success of the group buys over here, will be offered in as 12.5" barrel, and there is a half case of wolf 6.5 range ammo sitting in my online cart waiting for any potential sales over the coming week... Thanks in advance for any and all advice

[Greg_R]

You and I seem to be looking for the same thing, using the same cartridges, but using different ends of the barrel length spectrum.

I also use a 300 blackout, but chose a 16 inch carbine length gassed system set up for dedicated supersonic. I feel it is a solid 150 yard set up which covers probably 50% of my hunting needs. FWIW, I have become fond of the Sierra 135 grain .308 Varmiter bullets.

The other 50% if my hunting needs involve hunting over bean fields. I'm looking for something that will reach out to 400 -500 yards. I currently use a 280 Remington single shot, but wanted something in the AR platform. I chose the 6.5 Grendel. I really started to go with a 24" barrel, probably should have, but I just didn't like the front heavy feel. I compromised with a 20 inch tube. I have not finished the build yet, so I have no trigger time with the Grendel, but I'm thinking the 107 grain bullet will be what I'm looking for.

FWIW, I am hunting the sister state to the north of you.

[VASCAR2]

Ballistic Advantage just released 6.5 Grendel barrels and are offering a 12.5" Stainless Steel barrel for a good price. Lilja also sell short 6.5 Grendel barrels as does Precision Firearms. There is a 6.5 Grendel Faxon group buy for 12" 6.5 Grendel barrel but to my knowledge these and the 16" 6.5 Grendel Faxon barrels are the only ones currently produced or in production. Faxon is supposed to offer 6.5 Grendel at some point.


Federal has just released a 120 grain Fusion in 6.5 Grendel. Alexander Arms sells ammunition loaded with 120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, 130 grain Swift Scirocco bullets, 120 grain Barnes TSX. Precision Firearms has sold 6.5 Grendel ammunition loaded with the Nosler 129 grain ABLR ( Accu Bond Long Range). This bullet supposedly expands down to 1300 FPS and is attracting a lot of attention. PF also sell ammo loaded with Barnes 100 grain TTSX and a few other loads.

The Hornady 123 grain A-Max and 123 grain SST have proven to be very popular and effective. Check out the hunting threads and the survey of game taken with the 6.5 Grendel.

[LRRPF52]

Welcome aboard. 12.5" velocities are usually in the 2280-2350fps range with 123gr factory ammo.

123gr ELD-M and AMAX have lower expansion thresholds down to 1600fps.

129gr ABLR with .553 G1 BC also has 1300fps expansion threshold.

Look at the barrel length table in Volume II of the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks. It lists expansion and effective range for 10.5" through 24" assuming the use of 123gr SST.

Grendel SBR is the ultimate combination of capability and compactness in the AR15, with low recoil and dozens of factory ammo options.

[CupOfJoe90]

I'll be sure to order a copy of the new reloading handbooks once I get dies for the 6.5, for now, i'll probably start with factory ammo while I stash brass away. But it looks like I've got a few options to look at for factory ammo as well. I'll order up a batch of the Hornady ELD-M, AMAX, and I think I saw PF is loading the ABLR's as well. It sounds like i'm not overthinking the 12.5" 6.5's capabilities though, which is reassuring. Hopefully this week brings the first parts in a longish wait for a build. What are folks running optics-wise? I've seen everything from 4x+ to 1x-4x. I like a 1-4, but usually for a 556 or 300 blk range. Would a good 2-8x or 2.5-10x make sense on this short Grendel?

[LRRPF52]

I'll be sure to order a copy of the new reloading handbooks once I get dies for the 6.5, for now, i'll probably start with factory ammo while I stash brass away. But it looks like I've got a few options to look at for factory ammo as well. I'll order up a batch of the Hornady ELD-M, AMAX, and I think I saw PF is loading the ABLR's as well. It sounds like i'm not overthinking the 12.5" 6.5's capabilities though, which is reassuring. Hopefully this week brings the first parts in a longish wait for a build. What are folks running optics-wise? I've seen everything from 4x+ to 1x-4x. I like a 1-4, but usually for a 556 or 300 blk range. Would a good 2-8x or 2.5-10x make sense on this short Grendel?

Yes. That's a more ideal magnification range.

Vortex Viper PST Gen II is good glass with epoxy bedding for semi-auto recoil durability.

[CupOfJoe90]

I'm back with more questions.... and some updates.

In the past few weeks, I snagged a Geissele MK8 9.5" rail, Geissele LPK, Geissele 30MM +20 MOA Extended Scope Mount, and Geissele Trigger for this build, so parts are starting to stack up. I've been hunting for someone wanting out of the 12" faxon barrel, but despite all the complaining about the wait time, it would appear nobody really wants to sell their place on the list, worst case I know I can get a Ballistic Advantage 12.5" or the Lilja 11.5, so I am not super worried about that. I've also gone ahead and picked up 300 wolf 6.5 rounds, and am waiting for a deal on the Hornady ELD ammo as well.

I also snagged a magnetospeed V3 chrono for future load development (upgrade from a cheap chrono) and hunting round testing to get some good ballistic charts developed for this rifle.

Where I'm hitting snags, is optics. Running the numbers, using the 1600 FPS minimum velocity stated above on the ELD-M. Its looking like, best case, my MAX effective range is going to be at or below 450 yards, and the round drops fast after these ranges as well. I'm teetering between a GOOD 1-4 (something like the Steiner P4XI, which currently lives on my 300 blackout), or a 1-6 or 2-10 (Maybe the Vortex Viper PST Gen 2). Having a true 1x for some reason keeps popping in my head as a good idea, and knowing that past 600 yards, the round is dropping 30+ inches every 50 yards, what would you guys suggest for good hunting use specifically, that would also work well at the range?

[Bigs28]

I'm doing a 12" faxon build and am doing the viper pst gen2 2-10x32. I currently shoot a fixed 3x on my brush gun and think i don't need a 1x with the vortex having a 2x lower magnification. If it is a problem I'm gong to 45 degree a vortex razor or similar reflex site.

[CupOfJoe90]

Back with yet another update, I finally snagged a barrel. Jumped on the deal with cory over in the buy/sell forum for the lilja 11.5" barrel, PA bcg, gas tube, reloading books, mag, etc. minus the gas block (already have a stack of superlative arms bleed of blocks I got for cheap during faxon's 4th of July sale). It would appear I now have everything needed to get this one together and running. For additional magazines, are e-landers from alexander arms still the suggested route? If so, what size is a close match to a colt 20 rounder? Being that this will be a hunting rifle, I don't need a giant capacity and the reduced size(height) helps a lot when moving through woods and shooting from tree stands.

For optics, I've got my eye on the vortex viper pst gen2 2-10x32 waiting for a deal. As awesome as an 1-8 would be, everything I've read, seen, and know, tells me that I wont get very good light transmission at 8x due to the 24mm objective lens diameters. And with this being a hunting optic, I need good light transmission for dusk/dawn conditions.

I haven't seen too many velocity posts with the lilja 11.5", what would you guys establish as effective hunting range (for hogs and deer) using something like the ablr or sst's? I was going to go for the eld-m, but after seeing the results reported in the ammo sub-forum, don't think that's the best choice any longer. I'll be shooting factory ammo for the first couple hundred rounds to build up a stash of brass

[Bigs28]

I called vortex in the middle of June and the pst gen 2s were on a several month back order. I plan on ordering one in a couple months but not sure there will be any deals on them anytime soon. Your set up sounds exactly like what I'm building. I do plan on ordering a tbac ultra 7 as well for mine.

[CupOfJoe90]

Not sure where you're looking, but the best price I've seen on them (Vortex Viper PST Gen II both MRAD and MOA) is $819.94. And several places have them in stock.

[CupOfJoe90]

I do plan on ordering a tbac ultra 7 as well for mine.

Mine will be wearing a Rugged Surge. In short configuration it gives me essentially an 18" barrel, 20" if you add the K stack. Plus, being QD, I can carry the can to the stands in a pouch on my belt, keeping the rifle short, and attach once I'm set up.

[VASCAR2]

IMG_0009.JPG

The E-Lander 17 round mag is pretty close to the size of a 20 round 5.56. I wouldn't recommend the ASC 15 or early C Products 15 round mag as they are not always reliable when loading to capacity.

The photo above is a 17 round E-Lander next to a 14 round C Products then a E-Lander 10 round next to a ASC 9 round mag. ASC and original C Products magazine capacities include adding a chambered round so a 15 round mag only holds 14 rounds. An ASC 10 round mag only hold 9 without modifying the follower. The E-Lander mags hold the number specified 24, 17 and 10.

[CupOfJoe90]

Looks like the 17 rounders fit the bill perfectly! Thank you.

[kpswihart]

Vortex offers a pretty good discount for veterans, I believe 40%, but I've heard shipping times can be extended from what I understand. May be worth checking out. Experticity.com also has great discounts.