AR-Comp + Barnes 100 grain TTSX

[Jakal]

Indiana rifle rules for deer do not include 6.5 Grendel as a rifle, but as a pistol; the cartridge dimensions are legal. So I use a Grendel pistol (not SBR'ed) for deer.

I could use this load for deer hunting and may but when I have this...

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?12984-Talk-to-me-about-SBR-6-5-Grendel-setups

Why bother?

Since this is a 16" barrel, I can't use it for deer hunting. I'll develope a good round for this specific upper and purpose. Then I can take that load and try it in one of 4 Grendels. I have several loads that I can cross-shoot.

Preferred loads per gun...

20" Bartlein gets AR-Comp & 123 Scenars
20" Lilja gets CFE223 & 123 SSTs
12.5" Lilja gets XBR & 129 ABLR
16" AA, in progress.

4 different bullets, 7 different powders, 4 different guns...
The options are numerous!

[Jakal]

I was able to run all four of my stated charge ladders. 5 rounds each, all loads @ neck tension .003, no crimp COAL: 2.260.

And the winner determined by group size is ..

1st 28.5 grains AR-Comp and 100 grain TTSX, Ladder: 27.6, 27.9, 28.2, 28.5
Stats - Average 2686.05 fps
Stats - Highest 2702.53 fps
Stats - Lowest 2669.99 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 32.55 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 14.57 fps


2nd 29.2 grains XBR and 100 grain TTSX Ladder: 28.3, 28.6, 28.9, 29.2, 29.5
Stats - Average 2602.36 fps
Stats - Highest 2620.61 fps
Stats - Lowest 2583.91 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 36.7 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 14.5 fps


3rd 27.1 grains AR-Comp and 129 grain ABLR Ladder: 25.9, 26.2, 26.5, 26.8, 27.1
Stats - Average 2343.25 fps
Stats - Highest 2357.78 fps
Stats - Lowest 2323.08 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 34.7 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 13.56 fps


4th 27 grains XBR 8208 and 129 ABLR Ladder: 25.8, 26.1, 26.4, 26.7, 27
Stats - Average 2270.53 fps
Stats - Highest 2278.87 fps
Stats - Lowest 2260.95 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 17.93 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 8.83 fps

Will have to figure out the picture posting since PhotoBucket decided to charge a butt-load of cash...

I can say that AR-Comp sends out the bullets about 80 fps faster then XBR 8208, in this AA 16" barrel.

The ABLR is not as accurate with this barrel as it is with other loads that I have. 27 grains of XBR and the 129 ABLR in my Lilja pistol is really accurate.

Funny 3 ESs are in the 30's and 3 SDs were in the 14's and they came out in the order I stated them in the post #9 up above .

So I'll take the top 2 loads and go up/down by .2 grains and see where I end up. More to follow...

[Jakal]

Here are my 3 dedicated loads that I run in my other Grendels being shot out of the 16" AA barrel. 10 round groups shot just as fast as getting back on target, no cooling between shots or strings.



This is the load development with AR-Comp/XBR 8208 & the 100 grain Barnes TTSX. So far the AR-Comp/TTSX combo is the better of the 2 loads.



Will finish up my 2nd charge ladders this weekend and maybe a final ladder but it looks like its getting close!

[Kilco]

LOVE all this 16" goodness! Thank you for sharing this data.

I'm very interested in your tests with the 100gr TTSX and CFE223. I also read that H335 is a promising powder with the 100gr projectiles.

Your 31.6gr CFE223 and 123 SST load interests me a lot. Care to share some of your findings with that bullet in regard to powder charges and OAL? It's supposed to be my go-to bullet for my 16" hunting build but I've struggled to get much below 1" groups. I'd say consistently I've yet to get a load under 1.25" for 10 shot strings.. however the 123 ELD-M I can get .5 cherry picked groups and .75 -1 moa with 10 shot strings very consistantly.

[Jakal]

Kilco,

All loads are 2.260 COAL. .003 neck tension via Redding "S" die, no crimp. 31.6 grains of CFE223, Hornady 123 grain SST & a CCI 450 primer.

All reloaded on a Dillon RL550B progressive press. Dies are set the same for all brass sizing (Lapua / Hornady mixed). Redding Competition seating die. Brass full length sized every time and trimmed/chamfered ID & OD at first sizing.

That CFE load was developed for my wife's 20" Lilja barrel. I wanted to see how the 16" AA barrel would handle known good loads.

I guess I could shoot any of them and be ok.

[HONDO]

Jakal,
indiana has changed the regulations again. (Late 2016)
The newest rifle rules allow anything:
16" barrel
.243" diameter and up
Min case length 1.16"
Max cast length 3"
Private land only. If you hunt public land then the "pistol" calibers come into play. Such as .358 Hoosier etc etc. So the Grendel is legal on private land. Hope this helps even though you have several options. If nothing else it may clear the regs up for other Hoosiers.

[HONDO]

Btw that's under indnr regulations and for Rifles. Just re confirmed before I posted.

[1911man]

I have a question: What is your process for shooting these loads? Are you shooting all of the AR comp loads, then cleaning the bore before firing the loads with a different powder and repeating the process? The reason I ask is there is a pretty common belief for most handloaders (myself included) that a change in powder/bullet can effect your point of impact just like running chemicals through the bore does. So for example I was noticing that when I switched from CFE to AR comp loads in the same barrel my AR comp loads would be much wider than normal for 3-5 shots before settling down into the groups I usually see with it. It can really mess with your data and maybe some of these loads shoot better than indicated by your test target. Someone else may back me up on this.

[Jakal]

I have a question: What is your process for shooting these loads? Are you shooting all of the AR comp loads, then cleaning the bore before firing the loads with a different powder and repeating the process? The reason I ask is there is a pretty common belief for most handloaders (myself included) that a change in powder/bullet can effect your point of impact just like running chemicals through the bore does. So for example I was noticing that when I switched from CFE to AR comp loads in the same barrel my AR comp loads would be much wider than normal for 3-5 shots before settling down into the groups I usually see with it. It can really mess with your data and maybe some of these loads shoot better than indicated by your test target. Someone else may back me up on this.

1911Man,

I run the loads with the same powder and then bore-snake twice before firing the next charge ladder. CFE does leave a residue and it is known to throw the next loads off. I found this out earlier in my Grendel career!

I always strip clean out the CFE before going back to any other powder. So any powder and then bore-snake then CFE. Any CFE powder, then I strip and then start over.

Most of my guns like to be dirty and I believe in the cold-bore shot, so I leave the barrel dirty after load developement. Once I have ran my ladder and found my charge, I load enough to sight-in and have about 30 rounds left over for hunting season.

[Jakal]

Hondo,

Well Hot Damn! It's about time IN.gov/dnr got that figured out.

So now it looks like I may have some guns that could go to market! Doubt I would sell at this time but the next gun rush, these may go up for sale. I'd hang on to all my Grendels though!

I'd sell all 3 of my 5.56's if the cartridge wasn't so prevalent. If SHTF, 5.56 would be most available along with .308, .45 ACP, 9mm and 40 S&W and of course the 12 gauge.

[Jakal]

So I finally ran CFE 223 and the 100 grain TTSX. This will be the load for this dedicated night-vision upper; short story is...

2725 fps holding at 1/2 MOA at 100 yards.

Will try to post pics soon. Moved my Armasight Nemesis4x over to the 16" AA upper and will sight in my nightvision scope this week.

[Kilco]

Been anxiously awaiting your CFE223 findings! That's great velocity for a 16" tube as well!

[LRRPF52]

CFE223 does really well with 100gr solids. They build pressure faster, and CFE223 is a medium/slow-burning powder that fills the case really well.

[Jakal]

Not bad for a $195 barrel. Got other barrels that shoot much tighter but paid for it too. This is a 1:7.5 twist with a midlength gas so it took a little more work than my 1:8 rifle gas Grendels.

If I have my drop figured correctly, a 245 yard zero puts me 5" low at 300 yards running at 2036fps. That is about the extent of the nightvision range, so I think I'm set for some predator hunting this season!

[Maddvaper]

Benchmark or H-335 get ya close to 3000 out a 20 " ......