Reloading and Hand Loading Advice

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  • JASmith
    Chieftain
    • Sep 2014
    • 1620

    #16
    Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
    ...We collectively have centuries of reloading experience here on the forum from guys who have been avid hand-loaders since the 1970s, maybe even earlier...
    If one counts Pop allowing the young one to work the lever that seats the bullet, etc., then it might even go back to the '50s for some of us. Of course an awful lot of studying and reading went into the effort shortly thereafter.
    shootersnotes.com

    "To those who have fought and almost died for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
    -- Author Unknown

    "If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished!" -- Milton Berle

    Comment

    • Kswhitetails
      Chieftain
      • Oct 2016
      • 1914

      #17
      I've been reading up on the Grendel for a couple of years now. I have read just about every thread and board I can find to gain information about and educate myself on the Grendel. I have always found the OPs posts (here and other boards) to be enlightening, polite, professional, and knowledgeable. Not to mention helpful and honest. There are always - always - those who feel it to be necessary to snark about the Grendel, it's supporters, and it's proponents with snide bitterly sarcastic buffoonery. (Post 2 in this thread?)

      I just don't understand it. It would seem to me that when a guy hits a home run with a product he should be willing and able to promote it. This is America, and this would seem to me at least the very basis of making the American dream a reality. Why belittle someone's success?

      Because you're envious? Jealous? Chronically immature? Dumb? What? I feel bad for you. -rant over.

      Speaking of success... I'd like to give an honest recommendation for the books. I actually bought mine last weekend, and received them Tuesday morning. There is so much great information contained therein about the history, development, trials and errors, failures and successes. The authors have OBVIOUSLY paid their dues and done the math on Grendel! And now, they're willing to share that treasure-trove for a rather small fee. As far as I'm concerned, it was (and will continue to be, you can tell after just a few pages) well worth the investment.

      If you have a problem with being part of a message board dedicated to a cartridge where one of the major players in the development of that cartridge is still around, and makes himself available to hit up for further information as innovation continues, well - Bob's got a spot at the bar next to him, maybe he'll buy you a round. Best of luck.

      (The box aside, that thing is awesome, and I can't wait for LARUE to send me- and every other Ultimate Upper buyer- one with my GRENDEL in it this weekend... CONGRATS LRRPF! - alas, I digress- ) That box won't go in the trash, I assure you. In fact, I need 3 more. Hmmmmmm...

      I am rather glad to have had the OPs obviously knowledgeable posts to read through before deciding on my second personal AR build, leading me to Grendel. I'm glad I didn't go 6.8, or 25-45! So, I guess I get a little defensive when some no name hack hops on a legitimate board and starts making waves that just stir the water for their own enjoyment. These places have Mods, sure. But sometimes folks need held under the water they stir long enough to either get the point or fade away. My two cents.
      Nothing kills the incentive of men faster than a healthy sense of entitlement. Nothing kills entitlement faster than a healthy sense of achievement.

      Comment

      • LRRPF52
        Super Moderator
        • Sep 2014
        • 8569

        #18
        Originally posted by Klem View Post
        I take it you are deflecting my suggestion you are being obnoxious by focussing on intellectual property (IP). I'll bite...My take on this is that everyone retains what's called the 'moral right' to their unique creative works, referred to as IP. When you choose to post your IP online to this forum and the forum lists all posts without re-categorisation, selection or organisation (you choose where your post goes) then there is no implied claim to a unique/creative work. In other words, the forum owners are not recreating your IP into a whole new creative work, which would require your permission. I would add that if you choose to post your IP on this site then there's also the argument that implied in the post is a copyright.

        Using your data however in subsequent documents beyond the forum and without permission (unless it is clearly stated in the agreement of when you register) would be a situation where you could intervene to prevent this, legally. Copying small passages however and correctly referencing the original author is an example of 'fair use' which would be the defence against any claim. Different parts of the world have different IP laws so you would need to consider this also.
        When we pitched the whole Handbook project here on the forum, we had nothing but support from everyone, and gained specific permission from Site Admin. The whole purpose was to benefit the forum. Imagine me even trying to search for my own load data here on the forum if I lost it or didn't write it down. It's so much easier to just pop open Volume II and see it there, along with tons of other samples from the industry (months of permissions asked for and legally gained) and vetted data from other contributors.

        Some people might notice that their fastest loads aren't posted in the data.

        Xcountryrider/MSRhunt/borregobob/etc. didn't gain permission from Site Admin when he half-cocked that abortion spreadsheet with dangerous load data and modified 6.5 Grendel forum member data that he gleaned in attempts to promote himself, yet he accuses me of some type of malfeasance related to the Handbooks.
        NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

        CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

        6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

        www.AR15buildbox.com

        Comment

        • StoneHendge
          Chieftain
          • May 2016
          • 2009

          #19
          Barrelcactus was the last incarnation. I remember him sending me a PM saying that his OBT analisys would give my 18er a node with XBR and 123 NCCs at 29 grains. I said thank you and although I may not have the prettiest face around, it's the only one I've got.
          Let's go Brandon!

          Comment

          • kiwi shooter
            Warrior
            • Mar 2017
            • 120

            #20
            Lol i see this forum has the same issues as all the new zealand ones
            We just have to ween through the bad to get the genuine good people that are just waiting to help others
            The way i see it as soon as you put data on a public forum like this its free to use
            We all want each other to get the most from our rifle after all that's why we are here
            Theres only one hard fast rule and that is if useing other people's data do so at your own risk and follow the fundamentals ie work up to a stated load and cross reference loads in manuals to make sure sounds about right

            I have been reloading 10+ years but still wouldn't call myself an expert infact far from it i lern new things every day
            But i will give advice when i fell I have a fairly informative answer to a question

            Comment

            • grayfox
              Chieftain
              • Jan 2017
              • 4295

              #21
              I started reloading in the early 70's, about the same time I began in the nuclear engineering/operations industry and have been in both for over 40+ years. Although my degrees aren't in engineering, they are math/science and I was the expert in licensing, safety, operations and disaster response that others would come to. But in my business you never, repeat never, go right up to the line or the limit. Neutrons are not something to casually mess around with!!!!

              Well reloading is the exact same way.

              I don't consider myself to be an expert but have safely followed the discipline (as 52 correctly puts it) for over 40 years, for medium size cartridges 223 - .30-06... As a student of the game, I listen to guys like lrrpf52, 1955, Klem, et al (the other pros here I may not recognize your handles but the advice is still well-taken, not trying to leave anyone out).
              I've also been approached by the b-cactus and terminated it as well, I didn't trust his words. He could be crossing the line into personal liability-space if he's not careful.

              Let the science, physics, engineering and safe practices prevail here. And the people who adhere to them!!!
              I like the grendel. And I like those books. And I am always looking for value in what I buy. They would be worth it at twice the price.
              "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

              Comment

              • DDRanch
                Warrior
                • Jul 2017
                • 314

                #22
                Bought both books and there is a lot of good info. Money well spent in my opinion.

                By the way when is Volume 3 coming out?

                Comment

                • dttheliman
                  Bloodstained
                  • Dec 2016
                  • 30

                  #23
                  Don't sweat the jackass '52 - your rep is solid, your advice has always been good.

                  Comment

                  • LRRPF52
                    Super Moderator
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 8569

                    #24
                    Originally posted by StoneHendge View Post
                    Barrelcactus was the last incarnation. I remember him sending me a PM saying that his OBT analisys would give my 18er a node with XBR and 123 NCCs at 29 grains. I said thank you and although I may not have the prettiest face around, it's the only one I've got.
                    I just caught that. Work up to 28.5C (Compressed)gr with 8208XBR under a 123gr cup and core bullet. Some people hit 28.1gr or lower for max, others can make it to 28.5gr.

                    Hodgdon's has that data with pressure listed from piezoelectric metering.

                    When I see someone that can't master 3rd-grade English issuing out reloading advice, red flags start going off in my head.

                    When I see someone that can't master 3rd-grade English delving into longitudinal shock wave resonant barrel harmonics theory, we know we're dealing with a major personality problem.
                    Last edited by LRRPF52; 08-04-2017, 10:04 PM.
                    NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                    CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                    6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                    www.AR15buildbox.com

                    Comment

                    • tpepper70
                      Unwashed
                      • Jun 2017
                      • 20

                      #25
                      I was unsure who this guy was until you mentioned his barrel buys. I liked his grendel Facebook page and was enjoying the reads, until,,,,,I mentioned that my BCA barrel was a descent barrel that shot well. We argued and I left soon after. I love this place and if you read enough, you soon figure out who's word is golden. Thanks to all you who let me hang out here. Oh, I've been reloading since the mid 70's when, as a young boy, my Dad taught me. God bless folks.

                      Comment

                      • StoneHendge
                        Chieftain
                        • May 2016
                        • 2009

                        #26
                        Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
                        I just caught that. Work up to 28.5C (Compressed)gr with 8208XBR under a 123gr cup and core bullet. Some people hit 28.1gr or lower for max, others can make it to 28.5gr.

                        Hodgdon's has that data with pressure listed from piezoelectric metering.

                        When I see someone that can't master 3rd-grade English issuing out reloading advice, red flags start going off in my head.

                        When I see someone that can't master 3rd-grade English delving into longitudinal shock wave resonant barrel harmonics theory, we know we're dealing with a major personality problem.
                        The bizarre thing is in that incarnation, he was suggesting something that would not only endanger the shooter, but those who might be around him. But in this latest incarnation, he made that quick off the cuff over pressure comment in the 123 scenar thread. He was clearly just trying to stir the pot this last go round and is probably even getting off on this thread. Don't let him get under your skin. Just like any internet troll, that's his goal. And a troll is all he is by coming back here again after being banned twice. Mom's basement can otherwise be a very boring place....
                        Let's go Brandon!

                        Comment

                        • mdmfxstsb
                          Unwashed
                          • Aug 2017
                          • 12

                          #27
                          Just placed an order for the manuals. Thanks for the heads up.

                          Comment

                          • sneaky one
                            Chieftain
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 3077

                            #28
                            Always the safety guy here... I lobbed out the idea of the Grrr manuals--- The 3 guys that did them up properly really did a great job, better than I would have- If I had the time , and the patience to test , and shoot all the ammo. I supplied a Ton of bullets for gel tests , after the first books were made.

                            This is Our forum, we can all contribute a something. Don't try to undermine what we have here. L52 , & a few of us will filter You out.

                            Just give up proper data...

                            Comment

                            • LRRPF52
                              Super Moderator
                              • Sep 2014
                              • 8569

                              #29
                              This thread served its purpose. Guy outed himself first response right out of the gate.
                              NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                              CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                              6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                              www.AR15buildbox.com

                              Comment

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