Reloading

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Redomen
    Warrior
    • Jun 2016
    • 568

    Reloading

    I am starting to reload for the Grendel. I have been reloading for over 30 years so it is not new to me. I have the Grendel reloading manuals and it states an OAL of 2.245 using CFE223 and a 450 primer. This was recommended using an 18" barrel. I will be reloading for both my 16" and 20" rifles. My questions are: 1-don't I want the longest cartridge OAL that will shoot accurately and feed properly without a malfunction? And 2-isn't an OAL gauge useless due to the fact that you can not load longer than magazine length and feed properly. I measured factory SST and Black and the average OAL is 2.202-2.210. Was just wondering if I should start at recommended OAL or stretch it out a little to start. This is my first attempt at loading for the Grendel and AR platform.
  • xlcc
    Warrior
    • Feb 2016
    • 210

    #2
    I think you answered your own questions.
    I load for bolt action rifles,don't have semi auto's and always load to what my rifle likes to shoot the best.Custom made ammo for your pipe may shoot OK in my pipe but not as good as in yours.I use a COL that works in my pipe.You are on the right track.

    Comment

    • grayfox
      Chieftain
      • Jan 2017
      • 4295

      #3
      I have 3 grendels and each one is a little different.
      Here are my thoughts - hope it's helpful info.

      1. you want the brass/powder/primer/bullet/OAL combo that loads and fires accurately (and consistently) from your particular rifle with its unique chamber, not to mention rifling, barrel friction, etc. COAL is just one of the variables that helps get you there. (It's nice when 1 load works in more than 1 pipe but it's not a given)
      2. The OAL gauge isn't useless. Some chambers even in an AR can actually shoot a round whose OAL is longer than mag length, you just have to single feed it. Conversely, some chambers will not chamber a particular handload at "Saami 2.260" due to the bullet's ogive/construction and/or due to the pipe's particular chamber measurements. You should verify prior to loading any powder, what OAL your desired bullet can chamber at and extract successfully.
      2a. Unless you use a CBTO measure the OAL gauge is how you get consistent load lengths. Consistency is the key.
      3. Some bullets need some jump room away from the lands to shoot best, some like to be close to the lands.
      4. And finally, some mags have a 2.260 max length and some may go to 2.270 or even 2.280+... you just want to measure yours and factor it in.
      5. Once you settle in on what your 16" might like, just know that the 20" may be totally different in its "tastes" as to COAL, powder, best bullets, etc.

      Having said all of this, in my main Gr rifle I load the 123sst's at 2.260 because I found this to be the best length for the charge I use (from 2.240 - 2.280 all of which would shoot fine from the chamber and mag), for accuracy.
      "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

      Comment

      • VASCAR2
        Chieftain
        • Mar 2011
        • 6219

        #4
        You have to be careful with overall length as some bullets set to magazine length will stick the bullets into the lands. The 95 grain V-Max has a fairly blunt profile and needs to be seated deep so as not to stick in the lands. If loaded to long the bullet can be pulled out of the case if you have to unload the chamber. The first time I loaded 95 V-Max I seated them long and dumped a case full of powder.

        The 123 grain Sierra Match King is optimized for the 6.5 Grendel AR-15 and can be seated longer than the 120 grain SMK. I usually load to the published length in a reloading manual then test the cartridge in my case gauge and then my chamber. I really hate malfunctions so I try to ensure my hand loads function 100%.
        Last edited by VASCAR2; 08-05-2017, 08:09 PM.

        Comment

        • LRRPF52
          Super Moderator
          • Sep 2014
          • 8569

          #5
          Most people generally see that they can load the 123gr AMAX or ELD-M longer than the SST. We've suspected that the process of adding the cannelure bulges the ogive out a little more with the 123gr SST.

          Some mags are a raw 2.295"-2.299" internal length, where you would load shorter than that to prevent binding. My CProducts mags allow a bit longer than 2.300".

          My longest COLs are typically with the 129gr ABLR, 129gr SST, 130gr Berger VLD, 123gr Scenar, 123gr SMK, and 107gr SMK-all of which have really nice, long, secant ogives. These bullets can all be loaded from 2.260" to 2.275" for me for the most part in all my chambers (SAAMI).

          A lot of times, we see shorter COLs that work better with a little jump for OBT and conversion rate of the powder column, versus chasing the lands.

          For your 123gr SST, we normally see 2.245" and shorter. With the 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, we see 2.230" more often due to the tangent ogive.

          A general rule is the more tangential the ogive, the shorter the COL. The more secant the ogive, the longer the COL can go.

          I personally make dummy cartridges and load the specific projectiles in, color them with a marker, load them long, chamber them with bolt carrier inertia (AR15), extract them carefully with finger ready in the ejection port so the ink doesn't get marred by the lead edges of the barrel extension teeth, then measure how much land engagement I can see on the shank/ogive. I then set my die back maybe .005" behind that measurement, repeat the process, to ensure I'm not jamming the lands.

          I have a small collection of Grendel dummy cartridges with the bullets mentioned that I use when setting up my dies for a new bullet. I back the die off for seating depth, place the dummy cartridge in the shell holder, advance the ram up, then dial the seating die down until I feel it contact the ogive. I remove the dummy cartridge, then seat a bullet on a charged case, measure my COL, and see if that cartridge drops in the chamber and falls out. If it's sticky, I seat deeper until it's GTG, then mass produce the load tray at the functional seating depth that I've determined to be proper for that particular chamber.

          Others like to use the Stoney Point gauge with slotted case that threads onto the gauge, but you really need a full, inertia-based seat in my opinion when working with the AR15. If you don't have enough pressure when seating the case gauge, you end up with some stand-off from the headspace that will factor into you COL when you go to load, and that can be the difference between jamming the lands or not.
          NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

          CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

          6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

          www.AR15buildbox.com

          Comment

          • Redomen
            Warrior
            • Jun 2016
            • 568

            #6
            Thanks all for the info. LRRPF52 I use the exact same method of coloring my bullets on my bolt actions to judge seating depth. I was unsure if it would work in the AR platform.

            Comment

            • sneaky one
              Chieftain
              • Mar 2011
              • 3077

              #7
              Redo- the gauges are worth it. You need to know the jump to contact. Many mags have different internal lengths. I modified a short C prod mag to be 2.335 internal length so I could run my 95 Gmx at 2.32, and still have a 45k jump-- it's the accuracy sweet spot for that bullet., in my bbl. Got lucky on the first try...

              Rickoshay has a short sammie chamber- he loads close to lands. I sent him same Gmx bullets that I use-, for gel tests- his speeds were higher. Be careful!

              V max is best -started at 2.090 coal. back off 1 full grain, then find your way up. it is an amazingly accurate and deadly pill. It was the basis for my 95 Gmx units, that profile the 100 TTSX. By Exact outside dimensions.

              Side note........

              Overwatcher uses 95 Vmax in Idaho @ 350 yds. He texted me 1 day-- Dude! I'm out of V max! None to be found! You still have some?

              Yes! 2 week pause... I found some it's all good! Keep them in safe for next panic . Thanks man! Always good comedy here .


              Redo-
              You need a data sheet on all that you load- sometimes a mere .002 change in length can show the bbls true potential.

              So the coal - plays the part of a pressure regulator- every bbl has a sweet spot. Also for each different bullet.. Reload- it's worth it .

              Harmonics in the tube play a huge factor- pressures pushing the bullet through - bbl flex- whip. that's why short stiff bbls shoot just fine.

              Make sense?

              I love my new Faxon 16" tube. 1/2" groups @ 150 yds with my Gmx lite pills. Pinch larger with the 92 SMK's.

              Longer tubes need to be Bull bbls- yet so heavy for hunting rigs.



              If you need a longer internal mag, I could maybe make 1 for you- not soon, but someday.
              Last edited by sneaky one; 08-11-2017, 12:53 AM.

              Comment

              • Redomen
                Warrior
                • Jun 2016
                • 568

                #8
                Thank you for the information Sneaky One. I may take you up on the mag offer if I run into any issues.

                Comment

                Working...
                X