16" factory ammo velocities confirmed on film

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  • Kilco
    Chieftain
    • Jan 2016
    • 1201

    16" factory ammo velocities confirmed on film

    So after my 300th discussion with someone regarding the 6.5 Grendel needing a 20" tube to compete with 16" 6.8 SPC II velocities, I decided to grab my last box of Hornady 123 Amax Match and film some crono readings.

    I challenged anyone with a 16" SPC whatever chamber they choose shooting FACTORY 120gr stuff to "blow me out of the water". I will be shocked if a) anyone even attempts this, or b) they even manage to reach these velocities let alone beat them.

    Even if they come close, then we can compare groups at 300 yards...

  • StoneHendge
    Chieftain
    • May 2016
    • 2009

    #2
    lol - have you linked that on any 6.8 SPC LXXIV boards?
    Let's go Brandon!

    Comment

    • Kilco
      Chieftain
      • Jan 2016
      • 1201

      #3
      Lol! Not yet... the excuses would be worth the effort I'm sure..

      Comment

      • LRRPF52
        Super Moderator
        • Sep 2014
        • 8569

        #4
        I thought this debate was over years ago. On 6.8 forums, they already posted a statement from one of the ballisticians from Ramshot/Accurate Powders asking if they had done pressure test analysis of a SAAMI 6.8 chamber and a SPC II chamber, cut in the SAAMI chamber after testing it first.

        A number of tests have been done in private by the industry, and I got permission to make one public. It backs up the other data from multiple carefully done studies.
        ----------------------------------

        From: Robert Silvers
        Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 5:06 PM
        To: Johan Loubser
        Subject: Re: Western Powders Ballistic lab

        Johan,

        Have you ever done a test where you take a 6.8 SPC SAAMI test barrel, measure velocity and pressure, then ream the same barrel to 6.8 SPC-II - and add more powder to match the pressure of the previous test, and then see how much extra velocity there is?

        Robert.
        ----------------------------------

        Robert,
        Yes we did exactly that and the difference was negligible as to be ignored ca 20-30Fps and I know there is a lot of claims out there regarding this.
        Some apply the effects of other calibers (such as the 223Rem) with completely different expansion ratios to the 6.8SPC.
        The 6.98Spc is not sensitive to the slight changes in dimensions between the std and SPEC II.

        Regards
        Johan Loubser
        Ballistician
        Ramshot.Accurate.Powders

        ----------------------------------

        Robert,
        Example is that with SAAMI reference ammunition we got a difference of Pressure: -2.5%/-1200Psi and -19Fps
        If one consider that is equal or less than one standard deviation I consider it negligible.
        Regards
        Johan Loubser
        Ballistician
        Ramshot.Accurate.Powders
        future6.8owner: that is nothing but BS!!!!

        johan is probably a grendal fan
        TackDriver68: I can't wait till someone like Constructor or HTR who knows what they're doing because they have lived and breathed this cartridge for years sees this.
        DockGKR: The information Mr. Silvers has posted is the factual truth. Every professional ballistics facility, including USG, foreign military, and Industry, that I am aware of that has tested 6.8 SPC vs. 6.8 SPCII using industry standard equipment has reported only a 1000-1500 psi change.
        It appears to me that some people were trying to make a name for themselves by discrediting the Remington SAAMI submission, then proposing their "fix" with the SPC II, to drive sales their way and not to the industry standard. I bought into the SPC II claims initially, but also heard from engineers in the industry that looked at it that someone was playing games with the whole thing in order to discredit the SAAMI chamber.

        The SEALs asked Remington initially for 2800fps with a 115gr, because 2500fps didn't really excite them when they all convened for a board meeting with engineers from Remington, reps from the military, and other customers present. There was a guy working at Barrett on 6.8 rifles testing duplex loads in order to reach that 2800fps from a 16" with a 115gr OTM, and succeeded many times...

        Only problem was those uppers turned into Grenades and his efforts were seen more as amateur hour than something to mass produce.

        The involvement of amateurs in the development of that cartridge, its criticism and de-tuning by other amateurs posing as professionals, and then the amateur promotional tactics used in attempts to sell it to the military and coalition partners was one of the most unprofessional campaigns I've ever witnessed behind the scenes.

        If I even told half of what I know, it would shock a lot of people. I keep many of these anecdotes private out of professional courtesy though. It would make an interesting soap opera chapter in a future The Black Rifle Volume from Collector's Grade Publications.
        NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

        CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

        6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

        www.AR15buildbox.com

        Comment

        • Kilco
          Chieftain
          • Jan 2016
          • 1201

          #5
          Every time I post my results and joy over 16" Grendel performance, I always get a barrage of "it takes a 20" barrel for the Grendel to perform". ALWAYS coming from the 6.8 crowd trying to validate to themselves due to the amount of emotion, and money they have invested into that specific cartridge.

          I roll with facts and numbers, not emotionally investing into something using ignorance as an excuse to not only validate my choices but to also criticize others.

          In the comments section of another video, a fellow user claimed that a 16" Grendel would only push 2350 with factory ammo and 123s. He claimed he would never believe otherwise unless he saw it posted on video, and claimed if I was right he would sell his 6.8 and build a Grendel... so I did...

          Comment

          • LRRPF52
            Super Moderator
            • Sep 2014
            • 8569

            #6
            The 16"/2350fps comes from Hornady's 14.5" test barrel/AA 6.5 Grendel sample carbine with a pinned muzzle device to bring it to 16" legality to avoid NFA Constitutional Violations of our rights.

            People reference those 16" numbers thinking they are representative of actual 16" performance.

            I've had 123gr Scenar ammo that clocks 2520fps from a 16" in warmer weather.

            All my Hornady 123gr ammo has been right where your numbers were.

            Federal 120gr Match is in the same ballpark.
            NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

            CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

            6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

            www.AR15buildbox.com

            Comment

            • StoneHendge
              Chieftain
              • May 2016
              • 2009

              #7
              Originally posted by Kilco View Post
              Every time I post my results and joy over 16" Grendel performance, I always get a barrage of "it takes a 20" barrel for the Grendel to perform". ALWAYS coming from the 6.8 crowd trying to validate to themselves due to the amount of emotion, and money they have invested into that specific cartridge.

              I roll with facts and numbers, not emotionally investing into something using ignorance as an excuse to not only validate my choices but to also criticize others.

              In the comments section of another video, a fellow user claimed that a 16" Grendel would only push 2350 with factory ammo and 123s. He claimed he would never believe otherwise unless he saw it posted on video, and claimed if I was right he would sell his 6.8 and build a Grendel... so I did...
              Offer him a good deal for his 6.8 mags. Tell him you'll use them for your bro's 22 Nosler. Lol
              Let's go Brandon!

              Comment

              • Kilco
                Chieftain
                • Jan 2016
                • 1201

                #8
                Originally posted by StoneHendge View Post
                Offer him a good deal for his 6.8 mags. Tell him you'll use them for your bro's 22 Nosler. Lol
                Lol!! Stonehedge your always thinking!

                Comment

                • doofus65
                  Bloodstained
                  • May 2017
                  • 43

                  #9
                  Interesting, I was shooting Hornady AMAX around 2440 from an 18" barrel this weekend. I bought my ammo about 2 months ago. when did you buy yours? Curious if they've started down-revving it.

                  Comment

                  • 1911man
                    Warrior
                    • May 2015
                    • 482

                    #10
                    Originally posted by doofus65 View Post
                    Interesting, I was shooting Hornady AMAX around 2440 from an 18" barrel this weekend. I bought my ammo about 2 months ago. when did you buy yours? Curious if they've started down-revving it.
                    Every barrel and chamber will get slightly different results. 2" of barrel length doesn't usually equal a large jump in velocity. The type of rifling you have can also make a difference. These numbers are in line with what we have seen in multiple posts and barrels over the years.

                    Comment

                    • StoneDog
                      Unwashed
                      • Jul 2016
                      • 15

                      #11
                      For what it's worth, my 16" was launching Hornady factory loaded 123 SST between 2400 and 2420 all day long yesterday.

                      Comment

                      • Kilco
                        Chieftain
                        • Jan 2016
                        • 1201

                        #12
                        Originally posted by doofus65 View Post
                        Interesting, I was shooting Hornady AMAX around 2440 from an 18" barrel this weekend. I bought my ammo about 2 months ago. when did you buy yours? Curious if they've started down-revving it.
                        I believe it was purchased in March or April of 2016. I'll get the lot # when I get home from work.

                        Comment

                        • StoneHendge
                          Chieftain
                          • May 2016
                          • 2009

                          #13
                          Originally posted by doofus65 View Post
                          Interesting, I was shooting Hornady AMAX around 2440 from an 18" barrel this weekend. I bought my ammo about 2 months ago. when did you buy yours? Curious if they've started down-revving it.
                          Hornady is notorious for lot to lot variation. Last fall I purchased 2 cases of 123 Amax from SG Ammo. They ended up being different lots. They had different color primers. Which likely means different primer manufacturers.
                          Let's go Brandon!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            One more data point, apparently on the low end... 123 Amax factory loads clocked 2387fps average out of my 16inch.

                            Comment

                            • Sticks
                              Chieftain
                              • Dec 2016
                              • 1922

                              #15
                              I was clocking 2515 out of my 18" Barlitien barrel with ELD Black. MV calibration for 700y POI bumped it up to 2575.

                              SST was running the same, but accuracy sucked.
                              Last edited by Sticks; 08-11-2017, 10:28 AM.
                              Sticks

                              Catchy sig line here.

                              Comment

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