I am working on a LW build for Coyote hunting and it seems that all the LW upper receivers are loosing the weight by ditching the FWD assist and the dust cover. I like to have the fwd assist for quiet chambering and although I don't usually remember to close the dust cover I don't see how the weight it saves by loosing it amounts to much. Who makes the lightest stripped upper rec with both features in tact? Anyone know of a LW side charge left hand eject upper?
Forward assist delete. Good/bad?
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The weight of an upper receiver is almost nothing compared to the weight of the rest of the gun, especially the barrel and a full magazine. Shaving what amounts to a fraction of very little in the first place arguably does not justify the loss of function those two parts afford (in my mind anyway). Even if you've never used those parts previously someone else has. Reminds me of the old saying, 'Can't use it if you don't have it'. Each to their own of course.
There are previous threads on the Forum that tackle this question.
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I've noticed with a quality upper and BCG fit, when lubed properly, I don't need the FA and can have a more streamlined rifle.
For military use, the main place I can think of an appropriate use for it is when conducting final inspections in the ORP before going to the OBJ. As a key leader, I want to ensure every weapon has a round chambered that isn't temperature or humidity-sealed in a cold environment, but I also don't want everyone slamming BCGs home, which can be heard from quite a distance.
For hunting, I personally chamber a round as soon as I head into the hunting area out of camp or vehicles, at the vehicles, then maintain readiness for chance contact with game while keeping attentive muzzle and trigger discipline throughout until returning to the transportation method out of the area.
I can make a sound argument either way for or against FA, but I personally don't use it when present on the AR15 in a civilian setting. For those who climb into a stand and are worried about dropping a loaded rifle, you can argue in favor of a slow-close FA final chambering once in position. A well lubed rifle might close securely on you anyway with enough sound to alert the other animal life in your area, which will often trigger a warning to the intended prey. I recommend a 2-point quick-adjust sling carried on your back up the climb for this, with a round already chambered from before entering the hunting area. You have to carry the rifle up there anyway, so might as well be snug to your body. Most of the slings targeting hunters are Fudd slings that won't allow you to do this.NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
www.AR15buildbox.com
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I've had to use it once on a round the just barely didn't get the shoulder bumped back far enough in competition. I would have been sunk without the forward assist because it locked up the rifle solid.
To each their own, but I have used them. Hunting rifles no, there is always another day. Competition or home defense, yes.
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I can take FA or leave it, really doesn't matter to me...
I've never found it overly useful... as LRRPF52 stated, if I'm hunting, I rack a round in before I start my stalk or trek, and if I were the kind of guy who found that unsafe, I would probably go with a side charger before I relied on the FA.
That being said, all my ARs have a FA.. not by choice, it's just how the rifle/upper came.
I remember learning that in the early days of the AR15, certain rifles were requested without the FA, (air force maybe?) Because they were of the belief that if it didn't chamber, forcing the bolt into lockup with a live round was only making a bad situation worse.. just an interesting note..
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Parts weights: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=2061048809
The FA debate has to be decide per user, per how they use their weapon. I use the FA. It is easier to do the thing I use the FA for than to try to do it without. Options and adaptability are what make the AR so widely useful.
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Originally posted by Kilco View PostI can take FA or leave it, really doesn't matter to me...
I've never found it overly useful... as LRRPF52 stated, if I'm hunting, I rack a round in before I start my stalk or trek, and if I were the kind of guy who found that unsafe, I would probably go with a side charger before I relied on the FA.
That being said, all my ARs have a FA.. not by choice, it's just how the rifle/upper came.
I remember learning that in the early days of the AR15, certain rifles were requested without the FA, (air force maybe?) Because they were of the belief that if it didn't chamber, forcing the bolt into lockup with a live round was only making a bad situation worse.. just an interesting note..
The USAF insisted that their rifles would not have the FA device, and were type-classified M16. The Marines said they didn't need it, and felt that the design recommendations of Stoner were sound for their uses, but that they just wanted a new rifle quickly. The USAF, Army and Marines first received the 1st and 2nd variants of the AR15, the Colt Models RO601 and RO602 without any forward assist. The RO601 was known as the green rifle, as many had an olive green paint applied over the bakelite furniture. It had 1/14" rifling, the duckbill 3-prong flash hider, a more satin grey finish on the receivers, chromed BCG, Type A and B stocks, and other unique features. The RO602s were black, and had 1/12" rifling with the conical 3-prong flash hider, as well as most of the features from the 601. Neither had FA of any kind.
601s were used extensively by SAS in Borneo, Australian SAS in Vietnam, along with SF, and SEALs in Vietnam. SEALs actually used unit funds outside of DoD procurement chains and purchased many of them COTS very early in the life of the rifle.
The USAF GAU-5s used on the Son Tay Raid didn't have any Forward Assists. Son Tay Raiders were a Special Mission Unit hand-selected from various SF Groups Stateside for the POW rescue mission, trained extensively at a mock-up of the compound at Eglin, before deploying to SEA for execution of the mission.
The USAF Special Tactics Squadrons have used non-FA GAU-5A/A Commando variants for decades, before really transitioning over more to SOCOM-driven M4A1 variant carbine uppers.
NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
www.AR15buildbox.com
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Personally, I don't care how something was originally designed or designed for. All that matters to me is how it works now and if the features it has serve a purpose I want or need. As the gun in question will be for hunting coyotes, a forward assist can be very handy for quietly chambering a round when you haven't chambered one. I have used this for such on several occasions. For example, when having to clear a mis-sized reload and chamber a new round while hogs are less than 70 yards away.
Klem makes a good point. I won't suggest you will necessarily need it or need it often, but if you do need it, it is nice to have.Kill a hog. Save the planet.
My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
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Originally posted by Double Naught Spy View PostPersonally, I don't care how something was originally designed or designed for. All that matters to me is how it works now and if the features it has serve a purpose I want or need. As the gun in question will be for hunting coyotes, a forward assist can be very handy for quietly chambering a round when you haven't chambered one. I have used this for such on several occasions. For example, when having to clear a mis-sized reload and chamber a new round while hogs are less than 70 yards away.
Klem makes a good point. I won't suggest you will necessarily need it or need it often, but if you do need it, it is nice to have.Nebraska Firearms Owners Association. https://nebraskafirearms.org/wp/
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One of my Grendels is a slick side, doorless bench beauty. In four years, it has never needed the FA, nor would I consider using it to close the bolt on an otherwise stubborn round (re: reasons mentioned above).
Having said that, all the rest of mine have a FA and, yes, they are quite nice for quietly chambering a round so as to avoid spooking Mr. Wile E. Coyote. Dang, but they have excellent hearing.
If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
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