Broken Extractor

[Kswhitetails]

I've been trying to talk my dad into the Grendel for a while. I sent him over here to peruse the data and opinion of the horde to make a good decision. He seems hell bent on explaining to me why the Grendel is only a fad, like so many other in the past...

He actually found this thread yesterday, and I am glad, because I want him to see the discussion from the standpoint of what the possible issues are, and what is available already this early in Grendel's life to overcome those potential failures.

I mentioned the bevy of failures reported on the battlefield in early days of the M16 and the next few subsequent iterations, most of which required simple (but slow political) changes, most of which were insisted on from the beginning by the weapons designer and brainchild, Stoner. (Sound familiar?) Ahem, I lose my place...

OP, until this point how have you found the Grendel to perform in comparison to the available 5.56 and 7.62 platforms you've used so far?

Neither dad nor I are race gunners, but we speak often about someday enjoying a little friendly competition and practice.

In the end, he is really starting to warm to the idea of the Grendel in a bolt gun, but despises the "tactical" look of the Howa I drool over. He and I both LOVE the new CZ American.

I too am sorry this happened to you under these circumstances, FLS.

[LRRPF52]

We still don't know if the OP was using a low-mass carrier, lightweight buffer, or MLGS vs RLGS.

For example, you could cause a lot more extractor wear with MLGS, lo-mass carrier, lightweight buffer, with factory AMAX since it uses ball propellant.

It's very common in 3-gun to run a low-mass carrier, tuned gas, with LW buffer so that the gun still has a fast cyclic rate for your splits, but with very tame recoil.

If I was setting a Grendel up for 3-Gun, I would use ILGS or RLGS and probably would want an extruded powder load of 8208 or AR-Comp under the 107gr SMK going fast.

[Lastrites]

By the photos below it seems not all extractors are cut from the same mold. As can be seen the upper shelf that aids the extractor to slip onto the rim is noticeably smaller on the Odin than the Black River Arms, both came of bolts with the proper .136 depth and on each the seem to share the same rim relief/extractor height and width. Which is more proper I don't know but both seem to work well in my one upper that I currently own.



OP to bad it happened when you didn't want it too, Murphy's Law is tough to deal with at times. I snapped a lip on my 6.8 extractor a couple of years ago on a hog hunt, fortunately I had a back up rifle or I would have had a single shot.

[FLS]

My Grendel has a 24" Barrel, rifle gas, SLR adjustable gas block. rifle buffer, rifle spring. Pretty plain Jane. It's capable of 1/2 MOA accuracy if I do my part.

I shoot thee gun, at least a match a month plus practice and have for 4-5 years. Never broken anything in my 5.56 or 308.I broke an extractor in my Heavy Metal shotgun. Broken a Zev trigger in my Glock twice. Beretta 1301 has been flawless. My rifles have adjustable gas but standard weight carriers. Fast splits are cool but the long range stages and shotgun stages are where matches are won or lost.

I've never seen a Grendel at a 3 gun match. You don't shoot enough long targets for it to be an advantage, and heavy divisions have to be . 308 or larger. It would also be expensive with the high round counts at bigger matches. No reason not to at a local match. Mag capacity migh hurt you some.

[DJudge]

I was wondering if this was an ongoing problem as the extractor broke (fortunately not during competition or hunting) on my 6.5 Grendel setup recently too. It is a 16" Alexander Arms with their hard use bolt (must not be too hard use). Didn't have a spare so ordered 2 when I got home in case it does happen in the future...

[LRRPF52]

My Grendel has a 24" Barrel, rifle gas, SLR adjustable gas block. rifle buffer, rifle spring. Pretty plain Jane. It's capable of 1/2 MOA accuracy if I do my part.

I shoot thee gun, at least a match a month plus practice and have for 4-5 years. Never broken anything in my 5.56 or 308.I broke an extractor in my Heavy Metal shotgun. Broken a Zev trigger in my Glock twice. Beretta 1301 has been flawless. My rifles have adjustable gas but standard weight carriers. Fast splits are cool but the long range stages and shotgun stages are where matches are won or lost.

I've never seen a Grendel at a 3 gun match. You don't shoot enough long targets for it to be an advantage, and heavy divisions have to be . 308 or larger. It would also be expensive with the high round counts at bigger matches. No reason not to at a local match. Mag capacity migh hurt you some.

In that case, you need to contact the manufacturer and get this settled. A RLGS tuned down with choked gas with a rifle buffer/spring is one of the easiest combinations on bolts and extractors. If it was a 16" CLGS with a large port and a low-mass carrier, that would be a recipe for early fatigue in .223 even with weak loads.

[PewPewPachew]

Well here's my conundrum with an extractor currently. Bolt is a "Young Manufacturing" make, came with what appears to be a decent ejector spring, and the little black o-ring. It wont retain the casing rim at all. As in, you pull the charging handle and the bolt comes back, but nothing with it. Nothing is wrong with the chamber. It is head-spaced properly, and if you tilt the rifle back at all, the rounds will slide out.

I can almost hear a tick or pop though, once the bolt is pulled clear of the extension and locking lugs. Do you think the extractor is just weak, and dropping the rim as soon as its free of the extension?

[Klem]

Probably,

That tick or 'pop' is normal. When you first pull back the BCG there is extra resistance from the camming action of the bolt-head as it rotates. Once the lugs are free of the barrel extension it feels like it almost 'pops' free.

The MGI 'D-fender' is an enhanced D-shaped O-ring that replaces the MILSPEC version. It costs about $10 so someone's making money but I can vouch it cures FTE problems... Especially in situations like suppressors or SBR's where the case might still be expanded and gripping the chamber while the bolt is trying to drag the case out.


You can also try 'extra power' extractor springs like Wolff and others make.

[204 AR]

Well here's my conundrum with an extractor currently. Bolt is a "Young Manufacturing" make, came with what appears to be a decent ejector spring, and the little black o-ring. It wont retain the casing rim at all. As in, you pull the charging handle and the bolt comes back, but nothing with it. Nothing is wrong with the chamber. It is head-spaced properly, and if you tilt the rifle back at all, the rounds will slide out.

I can almost hear a tick or pop though, once the bolt is pulled clear of the extension and locking lugs. Do you think the extractor is just weak, and dropping the rim as soon as its free of the extension?

I had the exact same problem with the exact same bolt. It's not the spring, it's a slight machining flaw. The claw is not swiveling in far enough to get a good purchase on the case rim. I felt comfortable correcting it myself by taking a small amount off the bolt where the extractor seats. If you compare it to another bolt you'll see what I mean. I believe Young is aware of the issue if you call them they should exchange it.

[FLS]

My rifle is back up and running. I installed a new JP extractor and have 2 AAs as spares. I put about 30 rounds down range yesterday double checking my zero, dope, and function testing. The 3 Gun Nation Long Range2 man team match is this weekend. My teammate and I are both shooting Grendels in the unlimited division. We' see how she does.

[PewPewPachew]

Thank you Klem, 204 AR. I'm glad I wasn't just loosing my mind.

I've also had an issue with the barrel I purchased. So i decided to purchase one from a manufacturer that uses a type 1 dimension. I'll probably cough up the money for an LMT enhanced AK bolt.

[NugginFutz]

My rifle is back up and running. I installed a new JP extractor and have 2 AAs as spares. I put about 30 rounds down range yesterday double checking my zero, dope, and function testing. The 3 Gun Nation Long Range2 man team match is this weekend. My teammate and I are both shooting Grendels in the unlimited division. We' see how she does.

Good luck to you and your teammate. Looking forward to hear how she went.

[FLS]

Glad I had an extra extractor. A fellow Grendel shooter had one fail on his JP. This seems to be the Grendels Achilles Heel.
I hadn't disastrous double feed that I attribute to a shitty ASC mag, that really hurt our time. My partner had a couple or round he had to mortor out on his 6 creed gasser. Not our or our rifles best performance.
The match was set up for speed and the 223s kicked ass, overall the unlimited guns didn't get to play to their strengths and ended up middle of the pack. Still had a great time with good friends

[LRRPF52]

Glad I had an extra extractor. A fellow Grendel shooter had one fail on his JP. This seems to be the Grendels Achilles Heel.
I hadn't disastrous double feed that I attribute to a shitty ASC mag, that really hurt our time. My partner had a couple or round he had to mortor out on his 6 creed gasser. Not our or our rifles best performance.
The match was set up for speed and the 223s kicked ass, overall the unlimited guns didn't get to play to their strengths and ended up middle of the pack. Still had a great time with good friends

I think there was a run of bad extractors. JP sourced a new one with more controls on the metallurgy and processes, so those new ones should be working fine.

It's something I haven't seen on any of my Grendel's or others for many years, through many courses where we'e burning at least 100-150rds per day in precision rifle or DM, sometimes covering 3 days. I've fed 25rd mags to shooters until their position looked like a machinegun team had been there, just haven't seen extractors failing.

Recently, a friend of mine started having extractors break left and right, which was really odd. They were replaced, but it wasn't representative of what we've seen over the years since 6.5 Grendel was introduced.

My sample size is rather large, covering many different carbines and rifles, so I really am leaning on a window where controls and processes deviated from the norm. I would not say the Grendel has an Achilles heel with extractors.

Going to the .125" bolt face depth certainly does introduce an Achilles heel with the extractor, because there is limited lip material and connection with the extractor body. That's the only thing that fails on the LMT enhanced 7.62x39 bolts in full auto guns.

[StoneHendge]

Broken extractors must be the flavor of the month. Mine went out on my AR Stoner bolt for my 18" Stoner/Satern barrel a week and a half or so ago. This barrel has been in the queue for an upgrade next spring, so I'm not getting it a JP extractor, nor do I wish to pay AA $17.51 shipping for a $20 extractor that weighs less than a 223 projectile.

Does anyone know of another source? I've searched all of the usual suspects and come up with nothing. It doesn't need to last and won't be in any competitions.