If one was bored and had the motivation - Moscow Match

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  • mongoosesnipe
    Chieftain
    • May 2012
    • 1142

    #31
    Originally posted by joedirt199 View Post
    The bullet diameter of the wolf ammo is also .002 less than the bore to help contribute to the accuracy problems. Don't know that there is much to be helped when the bullet barely hits the lands
    .002 thousandths is not the issue causing accuracy issues if i ad to fancy a guess as to why it is assuming it is on purpose it would be because of the bimetal jacket being harder than standard coper and the reduced diameter better give the material somewhere to flow similar to the grooves cut into mono bullets

    as to the size if i recall standard 6.5 barrel specs are .264 grove and .256 land so there is plenty of material to catch the .262 diameter wolf bullet which probably fills the grooves as soon as the bullet swedges into the rifling a

    i think they are inaccurate because of the large variance from bullet to bullet and general poor bullet design if i was going to a heavier bullet i would change the powder as well

    Originally posted by bj139 View Post
    I was trying to see if I could size some hard cast .329 bullets to .309 through a Lee bullet sizing die. It was a no go, but after trying it in the .309 die, I tried it again in the .329 sizing die and it required some effort to push it through. The bullet had increased in diameter from the pressure. Maybe your pulled bullets and creative use of a reloading press could turn your .262 bullets into .264 bullets.
    that is called bumping and requires special die set especially considering the spitzer fmj and the pressures are pretty high you basically need swedging equipment also with the push through dies you can typically get away with 5-10 thousandths of sizing per die depending on your bullet diameter and alloy hardness and if you are sizing down 20 thousands your going to change the shape of the bullet rather significantly
    Punctuation is for the weak....

    Comment

    • Sticks
      Chieftain
      • Dec 2016
      • 1922

      #32
      Originally posted by bj139 View Post
      Did anyone here check for runout of the bullets on a sample of Wolf steel ammo?

      I pulled one bullet and measured it with a 1" micrometer to be just under 0.263" or about 0.2628.

      ....
      Then they have a lot of variation in bullet dia. The one (pulled) that I measured was .261. Several others measured just above the case mouth agreed, they are undersized - in the lot that I have.

      I will try a variety of samples. I planned on some 123 gr ELD, and match weight powder, I could go buy some lighter pills and see how they do, and do some match powder weight under the Wolf bullet, which I doubt will help, as mine are .003 undersized.
      Sticks

      Catchy sig line here.

      Comment

      • bj139
        Chieftain
        • Mar 2017
        • 1968

        #33
        Reloading Cost/ Round

        Powder $0.13
        Bullet $0.18
        Primer $0.035

        Reloading Total/Round $0.35/round

        Wolf Steel ammo $0.24/round

        Cost is the reason for shooting Wolf.
        If it is not accurate enough for what you are doing then you have to pay more, either in time or money.

        I will not buy a lot of Wolf, only enough for barrel polishing. It is no fun shooting BIG groups.

        Reloadable brass ammo seems to be the best option for me.

        Comment

        • bj139
          Chieftain
          • Mar 2017
          • 1968

          #34
          I thought more about swaging the Wolf bullets to larger diameter. It now seems like it might be dangerous due to the steel jacket even if it could be swaged larger.

          Comment

          • Sticks
            Chieftain
            • Dec 2016
            • 1922

            #35
            Originally posted by bj139 View Post
            Reloading Cost/ Round

            Powder $0.13
            Bullet $0.18
            Primer $0.035

            Reloading Total/Round $0.35/round

            Wolf Steel ammo $0.24/round

            Cost is the reason for shooting Wolf.
            If it is not accurate enough for what you are doing then you have to pay more, either in time or money.

            I will not buy a lot of Wolf, only enough for barrel polishing. It is no fun shooting BIG groups.

            Reloadable brass ammo seems to be the best option for me.
            Powder & primer is getting recycled. The cost per round for Wolf steel case only goes up by cost of a new pill, plus labor vs. buying factory match ammo at $.85 per. Even if it's a cheap varmit round, still looking for that 1-1.5 MOA accuracy instead of 3ish.
            Sticks

            Catchy sig line here.

            Comment

            • bj139
              Chieftain
              • Mar 2017
              • 1968

              #36
              Originally posted by Sticks View Post
              Powder & primer is getting recycled. The cost per round for Wolf steel case only goes up by cost of a new pill, plus labor vs. buying factory match ammo at $.85 per. Even if it's a cheap varmit round, still looking for that 1-1.5 MOA accuracy instead of 3ish.
              I guess I didn't explain what I meant. I just meant to compare the cost of reloading brass versus trying to rebullet Wolf steel ammo.

              I forgot to include the cost of the brass. If you get 10 reloads then $0.50/piece of brass divided by 10 reloads is an additional $0.05.

              Won't you also get better accuracy by just reloading brass? Or maybe experimentation is fun?

              I like to make unusual things work as well. That is how progress is made.

              Comment

              • Troutguide
                Warrior
                • Jan 2017
                • 380

                #37
                It might be fun and it would make disposable rounds for hunting so you don't loose your brass, thats my interest in this thread.
                "I rarely give a definite answer" - TG

                Comment

                • mongoosesnipe
                  Chieftain
                  • May 2012
                  • 1142

                  #38
                  it could be worth it for a im going to loose this "brass" like for hunting in tall grass but then again I have a big bag of once fired privi brass i got a while back
                  Punctuation is for the weak....

                  Comment

                  • bj139
                    Chieftain
                    • Mar 2017
                    • 1968

                    #39
                    Yes. Losing brass. That makes sense. How about a brass catcher. I use the cheaper Caldwell at the range and it works great.
                    I guess it would catch on brush, if you are hunting in heavy cover.

                    Comment

                    • LRRPF52
                      Super Moderator
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 8569

                      #40
                      The velcro-mounted brass catchers are a no-go for the field, and will even cause problems for you on the clean range if you don't adjust them often.

                      They are prone to inducing ejection malfunctions where the case bounces back into the ejection port, so you get a return-to-sender stove pipe.

                      A steel case hunting load make a lot of sense as discussed.
                      NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                      CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                      6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                      www.AR15buildbox.com

                      Comment

                      • pajasonc
                        Warrior
                        • Dec 2016
                        • 203

                        #41
                        Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
                        The velcro-mounted brass catchers are a no-go for the field, and will even cause problems for you on the clean range if you don't adjust them often.

                        They are prone to inducing ejection malfunctions where the case bounces back into the ejection port, so you get a return-to-sender stove pipe.

                        A steel case hunting load make a lot of sense as discussed.

                        Be nice if hornady did this. They do it with the 7.62x39

                        Comment

                        • Sticks
                          Chieftain
                          • Dec 2016
                          • 1922

                          #42
                          There is a better brass catcher out there, but it's pricy, and large. Again, not fun walking through the brush.

                          I've been fortunate with mine (caldwell) and have not had any problems other than when I am on the clock and need to clear a malf (bolt override), that is when it refuses to let go quick.
                          Sticks

                          Catchy sig line here.

                          Comment

                          • joedirt199
                            Warrior
                            • Jul 2015
                            • 121

                            #43
                            I saw the tactical brass catcher you are referring to and it is pricey. Figured I could rig something up with a cheap quick release aimpoint mount, some kydex and some sewn up mesh or bdu pant legs.

                            Comment

                            • mongoosesnipe
                              Chieftain
                              • May 2012
                              • 1142

                              #44
                              Originally posted by joedirt199 View Post
                              I saw the tactical brass catcher you are referring to and it is pricey. Figured I could rig something up with a cheap quick release aimpoint mount, some kydex and some sewn up mesh or bdu pant legs.
                              if you are hyper concerned about retaining brass you could just turn off the gas system rendering it a bolt gun
                              Punctuation is for the weak....

                              Comment

                              • joedirt199
                                Warrior
                                • Jul 2015
                                • 121

                                #45
                                I haven't had to buy brass until joining the grendel game. Up to my neck in .223, .40, 9mm, .308 and a decent amount of .45. Guess it is just my cheapskateness that makes me hate to lose brass that is not easily aquired on the ground at the range.

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