If one was bored and had the motivation - Moscow Match

[VASCAR2]

Has anyone compared a steel wolf case volume/capacity to Hornady or Lapua brass cases? Many times the volume will be listed in how much water a case holds and the weight of the water in each type of case. I was concerned the volume of the steel case might be smaller than brass cases. In my mind I can't get it out of my head the volume of fire formed 7.62X39 cases to 6.5 Grendel have less capacity than true 6.5 Grendel cases.

I haven't weighed any spent steel cases to compare to brass cases and had no idea if the laquer made the steel cases heavier.

[Sticks]

I will do a comparison to Hornady and Wolf case with water this weekend and post. I suppose I could pull down one of the Federal cases that I loaded up and add it to the list.

You can't go by weight of the case alone when you are dealing with two different types of metals. The specific gravity of each will be different.

[Sticks]

A picture says 1000 words.

100 yards, 65*.



Not at home. Will fix when I am on a real computer.

[VASCAR2]

You got my attention! What barrel length/action, brass or steel cases. For powder from steel cased ammo, wow, would've never guessed it would shoot that good.

[Sticks]

18" barlitien barrel, PF complete AR upper.

Wolf case, pulled down and reloaded with same powder ladder loads and Hornady 123gr. ELD. That was my first load. Problem is not with the case, primer or powder. Problem is Undersized pill at .262....clearly. I did 7 more and accuracy dropped and flattened/cratered primers at 29.3 grains. All but the last were sub moa, but that first one was the only single hole.

[Sticks]

First and third posts edited with the results.

[m796rider]

Damn... Impressive.

Now I REALLY want to see what 100gr SMKs or similar do with the factory case, primer, and powder.

[Sticks]

Has anyone compared a steel wolf case volume/capacity to Hornady or Lapua brass cases? Many times the volume will be listed in how much water a case holds and the weight of the water in each type of case. I was concerned the volume of the steel case might be smaller than brass cases. In my mind I can't get it out of my head the volume of fire formed 7.62X39 cases to 6.5 Grendel have less capacity than true 6.5 Grendel cases.

I haven't weighed any spent steel cases to compare to brass cases and had no idea if the laquer made the steel cases heavier.

Hornady brass empty 119.1gr, holds 35.6gr water

Wolf Steel case 98.8 empty, holds 37gr water

[VASCAR2]

Thanks Sticks! A buddy has a collet bullet puller and said I could use it. I guess I need to pull some Wolf bullets.

[Troutguide]

So on your ladders did you just use the mixed powder from what you pulled or how did you do it?

[Sticks]

It was not mixed powder. I pulled a bullet, dumped the powder from the case out in a container. Rinse and repeat x 100.

I did not notice any difference between in the powders from the boxes. I pulled down a box from a sealed case that I bought, and the rest were what I picked up off the Buy, Sell, Trade section.

That was 100% Wolf Powder...what ever they use. I did not notice any heavy smoke or "dirty" during or after I shot. Given the results, I gotta say I would like some of that stuff in bulk. 30# would be nice. When an Eastern European steel case junk load shoots a Hornady ELD better than the factory Hornady loads... Gives a person pause.

Still need to shoot the Federal Brass with the Wolf powder and 119gr pill. That could be sketchy since the steel has more volume, and I loaded up the Federal to the same weight. Not holding my breath for better accuracy than factory given the results I got by matching the powder weight and shooting the same Wolf pill back out. One needs to put a quality bullet back on top of that charge.

Also want to try a lighter bullet. 120s or 110 range. I am not a hunter of anything but steel and paper, so a hunting round would be better left up to DNS or Slappy (?) with the lead free trials.

[Troutguide]

Even better, hell I can start reloading without even buying any powder. Maybe I will just shoot Moscow match with my 129 interbonds? Might work. Save all these Hornady cases for when I run out. But seriously that is awesome you got such good results. So now just go shoot a bunch of groups with the same load and report results.

[bj139]

I had an idea the inconsistent neck tension may have had something to do with the inaccuracy.

I Lee factory crimped a couple of boxes of Wolf steel and shot two 10 shot groups with my AA Overwatch.

Groups crimped and uncrimped measured the same at 3.5 MOA and were remarkably similar in distribution.

No difference between crimped and uncrimped.


I did shoot a 1.3 MOA 5 shot group with my new BCA 16" barrel using factory AMAX.

It is getting better as I shoot it more. It has about 50 rounds of Wolf steel through it.

[Sticks]

Hopefully Klem, or LR1955 will show back up and chime in on the results.

There was very little FPS difference between my 28.2 and 28.5 loads, and again at 29.4 and 29.7 where I was flattening primers.

If anyone were to do this, I would advise starting lower than I did, especially with a heavier pill. Like in the mid to low 27s.

I loaded up 10 rounds of each for my ladders, but only shot 5 in case I had issues again with my Magnetospeed mounting off my rail instead of the barrel. I wanted no influence on POI. So my next trip, I am going to shoot the 28.2 again to see if I get the same results, then the 29.1 and 29.4. The rest I am going to pull down for recycle.

If I can get the 123s moving around 2550 out of my 18", and my pressure is safe, that may be my new match load. I have ladders of 2230, 2520, and CFE to run through as well.

Almost wish I got in on that Lapua 120 Scenar sale at, what, $.27 per? Double damn.

[LR1955]

Hopefully Klem, or LR1955 will show back up and chime in on the results.

There was very little FPS difference between my 28.2 and 28.5 loads, and again at 29.4 and 29.7 where I was flattening primers.

If anyone were to do this, I would advise starting lower than I did, especially with a heavier pill. Like in the mid to low 27s.

I loaded up 10 rounds of each for my ladders, but only shot 5 in case I had issues again with my Magnetospeed mounting off my rail instead of the barrel. I wanted no influence on POI. So my next trip, I am going to shoot the 28.2 again to see if I get the same results, then the 29.1 and 29.4. The rest I am going to pull down for recycle.

If I can get the 123s moving around 2550 out of my 18", and my pressure is safe, that may be my new match load. I have ladders of 2230, 2520, and CFE to run through as well.

Almost wish I got in on that Lapua 120 Scenar sale at, what, $.27 per? Double damn.

Sticks / Guys:

Not a huge surprise. The primary reason military ammo sucks in terms of accuracy is the bullet, not the primer, powder, brass, powder charge, primer, tar in the neck, neck tension, crimps, sun and moon alignment, etc. Pull the military bullet and seat a match grade bullet of the same or lesser weight and you now have a cartridge that gives much better accuracy than the service bullet.

I personally won't use bullets heavier than what was on the cartridge unless I drop powder charges. You went to the next level with your ladder testing and a heavier bullet. And since pull push is something we did to get decent shooting ammo quickly, the act of dumping and re-charging a case we considered using too much time.

Next would be to toss out the powder and use a commercial powder of known capability. After the bullet, the next factor is generally the bulk military grade powder. But if you go that far, you might as well just get some decent brass and start from scratch.

A couple of more things that came to mind over the last few hours.

When a increase in charge weight doesn't bring a significant increase in velocity, the handloader has already gone passed a safe pressure with the Grendel fired from a AR-15.

You may hit 2550 fps with a commercial powder and a 123 match bullet but I doubt it with powder you pulled from the Wolf steel case ammo. At least not safely.

LR55