210 lb Persimmon Eating Boar Down - Hornady SST

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  • Double Naught Spy
    Chieftain
    • Sep 2013
    • 2560

    210 lb Persimmon Eating Boar Down - Hornady SST

    I haven't been doing much in the way of necropsies lately, but this was a good candidate. I made a neck shot on this guy that I had hoped would also clip the head and my angle was a bit off. I like the idea of making a neck shot either quartered toward or quartered away such that the bullet may strike neck and go into the head and do CNS damage is none occurred on the neck, or go into the chest and hit vital organs if it didn't CNS damage the neck. Fortunately, I did hit the spine and destroyed the top half of two cervical vertebrae along with the spinal cord just behind the skull.



    Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 11-01-2017, 01:35 AM.
    Kill a hog. Save the planet.
    My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
  • jackwagon
    Warrior
    • Jul 2017
    • 127

    #2
    Nice shot. I am enjoying your videos.

    Comment

    • Kilco
      Chieftain
      • Jan 2016
      • 1201

      #3
      Great shot!!!

      I'm sponging up all this thermal Info before I make a decision this winter for coyote hunting.

      In your experience DNS, for winter night hunting over frozen fields at ranges from 100-300 yards, would you still advise thermal over Gen 3 NV?

      Comment

      • Double Naught Spy
        Chieftain
        • Sep 2013
        • 2560

        #4
        Thanks, guys!

        Kilco, here in the northern frozen wasteland of north Texas, I feel extremely well qualified to answer this question - NOT, LOL. We tend to be in the 30s-50s for much of the winter with only short term cold snaps that push us into the 20s, sometimes into the teens, and very rarely into single digits. So my cold weather experience is limited, although every time we get hit with an ice storm, I do go hunting.

        I have not hunted much with Gen 3 NV, not at all in cold weather that I can recall. On open terrain with snow on the ground (if that is what you mean by 'frozen'), lots of light being reflected from the snow, Gen 3 should be outstanding. The problem I have with NV in general for hunting purposes is that the camo that helps hide animals from your normal vision helps hide animals from NV just as well. A coyote or hog skirting a field just inside the treeline may go undetected with NV, but will "glow" or stand out with thermal, even if broken up by the foliage it is passing behind.

        I don't know how well batteries perform in Gen 3 NV in cold weather. Thermal tends to be hard on batteries and particularly cold weather makes it worse. I run an external battery to help deal with that and to just same money in general on batteries.

        While a coyote or hog may be well camo'd inside the tree line or in tall grass that breaks up its visual signature, they can also be hidden from thermal, but usually not nearly to the same extent. The hog in the above video is a good example. Being wet reduced its thermal signature. Being covered in mud, particularly on one side where it was still wet, helped hide it as well. That made getting a positive ID at distance, along with the high grass obscuring some of the view, much more difficult. When I left my hillside perch and figured I had a "high probability" that the target was a hog, that was based on its shape and movement after watching it for a few minutes. I did not think it was a deer and reasoned that it was not a calf as no cattle were supposed to be in the pasture, but I was not certain of the identification before getting closer. With me so far? Thermal is really good, but not perfect.

        Now let's look at winter use of thermal. There is a condition I refer to as "gray out" that technically is referred to as "thermal crossover" where most everything in the environment is about the same temperature. For long periods of cold weather (or multiple days of rainy/cloudy weather), the ground, grass, trees, etc. all become the same temperature and start to blend together. They homogenize. The animals don't, however. They will stand out even if they just appear to be running around is a blank grey field. So you can still target the animals, but you may lose environmental context. Some scopes deal with this better than others. The Pulsars deal with it pretty well as do the Trijicons. Some models of Flir Zeus scopes deal with it pretty well (My 42mm that I use for a spotter deals with it better than the higher magnification and larger lensed 75mm Zeus).

        So, what I would ask you, therefore, is more about the context in which you are hunting. If you are dealing with low fields (short vegetation) and Gen 3 should be great. Where you will also get into trouble with NV is when you need to use an IR illuminator. Gen 3 is wonderful, but it has to have some light. Cloudy skies, such as you may encounter for long periods in winter time, block out star and moon light and may render your Gen 3 scope useless without an IR illuminator. That isn't a huge problem. I hunted with a digital NV with an IR illuminator for a couple of years. It limits you, but you aren't out of the game. Where the real problems come in is when your illuminator hits foliage between you and your target and whites out your FOV because the foliage in front of you is so much brighter than the coyote you are trying to see in the distance. Let me give you this example. Have you ever tried looking for a cat in the bushes at night? You have your flashlight out and you are shining it toward the bushes and all you are seeing is the bushes and you can't see the cat inside them even if they aren't thick bushes and that is because there is so much more light reflecting off the bushes that it outshines anything reflecting back from the cat. You get the same effect with flash photography where things in the foreground show up so much better than things in the background sometimes.

        Also, if you are using an IR illuminator on your gun (which points where you point and which makes sense to be very portable and functional), you can get whiteout reflectivity occurring by firing your rifle on a calm night. When you shoot, even with "smokeless powder," a LOT of debris flies out of your gun into the air. Many of those particulates are quite lightweight and will float in the air for seconds. If there is no breeze, your IR illuminator's light will reflect off these particulates and effectively blind you from anything down range. Depending on how little breeze, it could last a fraction of a second to 4 or 5 seconds. If you aren't using an IR illuminator, you won't notice these particulates with Gen 3 otherwise. I can direct you to some videos if you need examples of what I am talking about.

        Did that cover it or is there something you would like me to explain further?

        Please pardon my typos. I will correct them when I reread this again later...
        Kill a hog. Save the planet.
        My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

        Comment

        • Kilco
          Chieftain
          • Jan 2016
          • 1201

          #5
          Wowzer that was the exact kind of info I was seeking and you really put things into context for me! Your my hero!

          The amount of footage I've seen from terrain like mine has been limited, but based on your descriptions it seems I would be happy with both for winter purposes. It's usually a vast 10-20 acre frozen potato field buried in 3-6 ft of snow.

          As far as effectively engaging targets at distance with all things being equal, how would you compare Gen 3 vs Thermal?

          It certainly seem that in any kind of dense cover or shrubs Thermal gets the nod.

          Comment

          • Klem
            Chieftain
            • Aug 2013
            • 3508

            #6
            00', nice summary!

            Kilco,
            What sort of NVD setup are you thinking about?

            Comment

            • Kilco
              Chieftain
              • Jan 2016
              • 1201

              #7
              Originally posted by Klem View Post
              00', nice summary!

              Kilco,
              What sort of NVD setup are you thinking about?
              First time I've ever really dove into it, and all the information is overwhelming.

              I was first looking at the "clip on" Gen 3 systems. After reading hours of reports and testimonies it seems the general consensus is they arnt as effective or repeatable as a dedicated NV/Thermal scope.

              I've narrowed the brands down to Armasite and Pulsar, as both seem to have a great reputation for reliability and quality.

              A few have recommended a gen 2+ system, but I feel if I'm going to invest once in this I'm going to do it right.

              Comment

              • Klem
                Chieftain
                • Aug 2013
                • 3508

                #8
                'Clip-on' usually refers to the larger, expensive PVS22 with inbuilt collimation. Unsure if you can access a PVS22 as a cilvilian over your way. The gen III PVS14 is available to civilians however and this can be used to shoot a night effectively. If you attach it in front of the scope you will need an expensive interface device to align the POAim with the POI. Another problem of forward mounting is you are magnifying a digital image of a fixed resolution, 72LPI. You can only magnify it so much before you are looking at pixels.

                Or you can mount the PVS behind the scope. Either a reflex sight (most popular) or a magnified sight. With a reflex sight this is the simplest but you only have 0 magnification to hunt with. With a magnified sight there are issues to do with having an illuminated reticle that flares in the PVS because they are usually too bright. Scopes like the Nightforce with Digillum has a very low green setting on their reticles which work with an NVD. Plus you end up with a strange cheek weld because you now have the PVS pushing your head further back on the stock. Or like a thermal you have a dedicated night gun with the scope mounted forward to permit space for the PVS and a normal cheek weld.

                I find that for half the month you can get away with a PVS without the assistance of an IR light. There's enough ambient light to shoot with just the PVS14. For the other half when it is darker or when overcast you need help with a light source. This is another thing that cost money and needs to attach to the gun. That said the benefit of an IR torch is like a visible spotlight. You swing it around and catch the eyes of the animals as they look at you. They stand out like neon globes. You can also immediately identify everything you look at. Having a bright, contrasting background also helps. For example looking up in a tree you can see silhouettes of animals with the NVD that you cannot see with a light source (unless the animal is looking back at you, then you see the eyes).

                If you are shooting at close range, say 100M you can also use a zeroed IR laser on the rifle and have the NVD on a helmet. The reason is you quickly tire of swinging a heavy gun around looking for prey but on a helmet it's less taxing and more intuitive. You line up the laser from your waist or on a tripod. The FDA permit 0.1mw IR lasers for civilian ownership and while that is a lot less power than the military it is adequate for shooting out to 150-200M. In fact the military powered IR's are often too bright for precise shooting.

                Or you could hang the PVS14 around your neck for general viewing and attach it to the gun when there's a shot imminent. Takes some practise in the dark to get it smooth but again, sure beats swinging the gun around up in the aim while looking for prey.

                Or you could use a thermal. There are pros and cons of using both.

                Comment

                • keystone183
                  Warrior
                  • Mar 2013
                  • 590

                  #9
                  Kilco, what you NEED to do.........is.........get both!!

                  In my limited experience (a few nights a month, if i'm lucky) each tech (NV/thermal) has its advantages and disadvantages. I have gen3NV, what it is best at is allowing you to move around, scanning, id of animals. Like klem said, adding an ir flashlight is a must for scanning for animals, but i rarely us it unless doing just that. Too much ir light creates too many shadows and glares. I imagine a blanket of snow would only exacerbate that. What it is NOT good for, is shooting at things at longer ranges. My experience with lasers is that they are too bright close in, and once you get out much over 100 yards, using them accurately becomes a challenge.

                  Now, i have also used some nice thermal on a few occasions, and what it is great for, is shooting accurately. Also like DNS mentioned, it is extremely useful for picking up animals that might otherwise be concealed. However constantly scanning through a mounted scope does become a chore. When using both it is much easier to identify certain areas where you know something might be hiding, and those where you know you can see what is there with NV only. Its other advantage over NV is magnification. Mitigates some of the advantage i think nv has on identification. But, as far as actually making shots, thermal can't be beat.

                  If what you are planning on doing mostly is night hunting coyotes from a fixed position, in an area that you are probably familiar with, id go thermal first and then NV when you can reload the wallet for it.

                  Comment

                  • Kilco
                    Chieftain
                    • Jan 2016
                    • 1201

                    #10
                    I've learned more from you three in the past posts than i have with months of scanning elsewhere... really solid info here thay helps me narrow my search. I also have to keep ijn mind my operating temperatures will be avraging from -15f to 15f typicaly, so I need equipment than can perform and survive these temps.

                    Comment

                    • LRRPF52
                      Super Moderator
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 8569

                      #11
                      I love persimmons. They eat them a lot in Russia, imported from Israel.

                      No wonder that boar found his happy place.
                      NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                      CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                      6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                      www.AR15buildbox.com

                      Comment

                      • Texas
                        Chieftain
                        • Jun 2016
                        • 1230

                        #12
                        Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
                        I love persimmons. They eat them a lot in Russia, imported from Israel.

                        No wonder that boar found his happy place.
                        Have you ever eaten a persimmon before the first frost? Right now the Persimmon trees around one of my ponds is loaded, the racoons will have them eaten by the second day after the first frost.

                        Comment

                        • Redomen
                          Warrior
                          • Jun 2016
                          • 568

                          #13
                          Very good info guys. Thank you.

                          Comment

                          • usmcm16a2
                            Warrior
                            • Aug 2015
                            • 538

                            #14
                            LRRP52,


                            My favorite variety of persimmon is Hachia. In the fall I will eat 6 or more a day. MMMMMMMM

                            Comment

                            • Jakal
                              Warrior
                              • May 2014
                              • 376

                              #15
                              Have you ever seen a persimmon by the light of the silvery moon, ...using NV 2+ID?

                              Nope, me neither!
                              ""Come taste my Shillelagh you goat-eatin bastard!""

                              Comment

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