Optics Advice

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  • jackwagon
    Warrior
    • Jul 2017
    • 127

    Optics Advice

    Guys, I think I have researched every optic known to man and am more undecided then when I started.
    I have a SWFA 10x42 SS now and have shot to 500 yards. However whether its my eyes or the limit of the scope I don't feel that I can actually aim at a single point on the target ( kind of hope its in the center). My thought was a 6x24x50 until I looked through a few at the range last time out
    The first was a Vortex crossfire the low end, and the other was the new Nikon black. At 500 yards my SWFA was more clear then both, not only to me but to the owners of the other scopes also. So now what? Am I expecting to see the target closer than is possible? I need some zoom.

    I am on a quest to shoot to 1000 yards ( just because ) I will be shooting from a bench or prone at a private range, no hunting, or classes or mountain/ desert terrain trekking with this gun and scope combo. i was looking at 3 until i saw the Athlon tracking test on another post, so the other 2 are SWFA 20x 42 MIL QUAD and the Vortex HST 6X24X50MRAD . The Vortex is as high as i would like to go at $639. thanks in advance.
  • LR1955
    Super Moderator
    • Mar 2011
    • 3355

    #2
    Originally posted by jackwagon View Post
    Guys, I think I have researched every optic known to man and am more undecided then when I started.
    I have a SWFA 10x42 SS now and have shot to 500 yards. However whether its my eyes or the limit of the scope I don't feel that I can actually aim at a single point on the target ( kind of hope its in the center). My thought was a 6x24x50 until I looked through a few at the range last time out
    The first was a Vortex crossfire the low end, and the other was the new Nikon black. At 500 yards my SWFA was more clear then both, not only to me but to the owners of the other scopes also. So now what? Am I expecting to see the target closer than is possible? I need some zoom.

    I am on a quest to shoot to 1000 yards ( just because ) I will be shooting from a bench or prone at a private range, no hunting, or classes or mountain/ desert terrain trekking with this gun and scope combo. i was looking at 3 until i saw the Athlon tracking test on another post, so the other 2 are SWFA 20x 42 MIL QUAD and the Vortex HST 6X24X50MRAD . The Vortex is as high as i would like to go at $639. thanks in advance.
    JW:

    Have you set the ocular lens for the distance or to infinity and have you adjusted said lens so you can see a crisp and clear reticle pattern?

    Also, if you have done so and see a blur come and go as you look through the optic, it is most likely mirage.

    The optic ought to give you decent clarity but all bets are off when you get into heavy mirage. You will still see crisp cross hairs but the target will come in and out of blur.

    LR55

    Comment

    • jackwagon
      Warrior
      • Jul 2017
      • 127

      #3
      LR55, I set the lens for the clearest reticle by just looking out in the distance , at nothing basically. I was shooting at 500 and the adjusted distance that was clearest was just a hair past 500. The sight picture was clear, 72 degrees, maybe a little mirage. My concern is that I still have 500 yards to go and I am struggling to find the center of the target now, I did start moving the scope off the edge of the target then lining it up and then moving it back and this helped. I like the SWFA 10x42 , but I would like a little more magnification.

      Comment

      • Kilco
        Chieftain
        • Jan 2016
        • 1201

        #4
        Out of those two options, I would deff suggest the Vortex.
        .

        Comment

        • Wafavre2
          Warrior
          • Feb 2017
          • 142

          #5
          Vortex +1

          Comment

          • bj139
            Chieftain
            • Mar 2017
            • 1968

            #6
            When I got my first Grendel I bought a used 16X mil/milquad SWFA and found it clear ($211).

            Many people said the 10X SWFA was way better so I bought that for my next Grendel from SWFA ($260).

            Then I thought I needed more magnification and bought a used 20X SWFA ($200).

            The 16X is the best compromise between magnification and clarity.

            20X is not as clear as 16X and the magnification increase from 16 to 20 (25%) is not as great as the magnification increase from 10 to 16 (60% increase).

            I am only shooting at 100yds and can't imagine shooting at a one inch dot at 600 yards with a 10X.

            Tracking is very good with all three.

            Comment

            • Kilco
              Chieftain
              • Jan 2016
              • 1201

              #7
              A 1" dot at 600 is pretty extreme for any power range.

              However I've taken rifles out to 1k on a 16" target with a 10x scope before and did not feel handicapped in the least.

              Comment

              • jackwagon
                Warrior
                • Jul 2017
                • 127

                #8
                Originally posted by Kilco View Post
                A 1" dot at 600 is pretty extreme for any power range.

                However I've taken rifles out to 1k on a 16" target with a 10x scope before and did not feel handicapped in the least.
                Wow, no kidding. I was using a 12x12 target at 500 ugh!!! I am starting to think I need an eye exam.....

                Comment

                • LR1955
                  Super Moderator
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 3355

                  #9
                  Originally posted by jackwagon View Post
                  LR55, I set the lens for the clearest reticle by just looking out in the distance , at nothing basically. I was shooting at 500 and the adjusted distance that was clearest was just a hair past 500. The sight picture was clear, 72 degrees, maybe a little mirage. My concern is that I still have 500 yards to go and I am struggling to find the center of the target now, I did start moving the scope off the edge of the target then lining it up and then moving it back and this helped. I like the SWFA 10x42 , but I would like a little more magnification.
                  JW:

                  You did everything to adjust the optic. You would be surprised at how many people spend a bunch of money on an optic and do not adjust the ocular lens or take out parallax.

                  10X is more than sufficient for 600 yards on targets of about 2 minutes or more. However, when using thick reticles like those used for military and hunting purposes (where seeing the reticle pattern in adverse visibility conditions is more important than one minute holds), you will have problems depending on your standards. Bringing it in from the side is a decent technique but if it doesn't meet your standards, you need a target cross hair or dot. Much thinner and smaller but those bring problems too because it is harder to find the reticle on a dark target.

                  10X is not sufficient for 1000 yards shooting. For that distance I recommend at least 20 power although I have done OK with a 16. Higher magnifications have their problems too because you pick up more dust and mirage and you see more movement. Also, getting them focused becomes more critical due to a higher magnificaion. That said, 10X is still insufficient for 1K shooting.

                  LR55

                  Comment

                  • Klem
                    Chieftain
                    • Aug 2013
                    • 3506

                    #10
                    Originally posted by bj139 View Post

                    I am only shooting at 100yds and can't imagine shooting at a one inch dot at 600 yards with a 10X.

                    .
                    Shooting at a 1-inch target at 600yards is quite doable, perhaps even with 10X (although don't quote me).

                    There is a competition here called the Fly Shoot. It's a 500M shoot (547yds). The shooters who do well have high quality glass scopes with high magnifications. They win, not necessarily because they are good shots but because they can see their bullet holes at 500 while others can't. The deal is you get five sighters and then 10 shots to score. As you fire the ten shots those that can see their bullet holes can adjust for the next shot while others just shoot a 10 shot string and hope for the best.

                    Being able to see bullet holes at 547yards is the equivalent of a 0.3" target.

                    Comment

                    • robertc1024
                      Bloodstained
                      • Aug 2015
                      • 73

                      #11
                      I've got a SWFA 10x on one rifle I shoot out to 700 yards - agree that ~500 it's getting really hard to see a point on a target. For ringing steel plates, no problem.

                      I wonder if the Athlon tracking review you read was a fluke. I put one of the 6-24 Athlon Argos scopes on my Grendel and for the price I love it. I also did a lot of research and saw pretty good reviews on the tracking. Mine's been spot on. If you still don't feel warm and fuzzy about them, I agree on the Vortex.

                      Comment

                      • grayfox
                        Chieftain
                        • Jan 2017
                        • 4295

                        #12
                        Originally posted by jackwagon View Post
                        Wow, no kidding. I was using a 12x12 target at 500 ugh!!! I am starting to think I need an eye exam.....
                        Jackwagon, I don't know your age nor your eye situation, but can say that in my case, a lot of blurriness and reticle focus problems for me was due to some creeping cataract-issues. Go to a good opthamologist and if nothing else, get a baseline readout on where your eyes are wrt cataracts. Some Optometrists can maybe see the start of them but a good Opthalmol. is needed to really see what's going on. There are 3 different ways cataracts form and different ways they affect you... but after I had the surgery my scope sighting was night and day different!!!

                        By the way the first Opthamol I tried could "see" them but couldn't tell me what or how to monitor their progress (some cat's develop fast and some don't) - I "fired" him and went to someone else who could... one that btw takes care of airline pilots' eyes!! I figured that was a pretty good recommendation. So a Dr that helps you quantify what's going on - that's what you're looking for.
                        Scope changes cannot compensate for cat's.
                        "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

                        Comment

                        • jackwagon
                          Warrior
                          • Jul 2017
                          • 127

                          #13
                          Originally posted by grayfox View Post
                          Jackwagon, I don't know your age nor your eye situation, but can say that in my case, a lot of blurriness and reticle focus problems for me was due to some creeping cataract-issues. Go to a good opthamologist and if nothing else, get a baseline readout on where your eyes are wrt cataracts. Some Optometrists can maybe see the start of them but a good Opthalmol. is needed to really see what's going on. There are 3 different ways cataracts form and different ways they affect you... but after I had the surgery my scope sighting was night and day different!!!

                          By the way the first Opthamol I tried could "see" them but couldn't tell me what or how to monitor their progress (some cat's develop fast and some don't) - I "fired" him and went to someone else who could... one that btw takes care of airline pilots' eyes!! I figured that was a pretty good recommendation. So a Dr that helps you quantify what's going on - that's what you're looking for.
                          Scope changes cannot compensate for cat's.
                          Hahaa, easy there Grayfox its just a little astigmatism...

                          Comment

                          • bj139
                            Chieftain
                            • Mar 2017
                            • 1968

                            #14
                            I guess I should go to a store to take a look at one of them Vortexes to see what all the hullaballo is about.

                            My eyes are terrible compared to when I was 25 years old. Wait till you youngsters see what is in store for you.

                            Comment

                            • jackwagon
                              Warrior
                              • Jul 2017
                              • 127

                              #15
                              Thanks to all who gave input. I found a Vortex HTS 6x24x50 for a good price and went ahead and got it. Really like the turret markings with the arrows so I wont turn the wrong way anymore It appears pretty clear, but wont know until I get back to the range.

                              Comment

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