.224 Valkyrie? Future competitor to the 6.5 Grendel?

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  • Sticks
    Chieftain
    • Dec 2016
    • 1922

    #31
    Originally posted by JASmith View Post
    The muzpzle velocity numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. The 22 Nosler does not get 3000 fps from even a 77 gr bullet per their load data page: https://load-data.nosler.com/nosler-...osler-77gr.pdf
    More powder behind that Valkyrie round I'll bet.

    The 3k FPS, I did not play with the numbers much, just hit something that kept it close to trans sonic at 1300 - per their advert. for super sonic at 1300. I'll bet it's close.
    Sticks

    Catchy sig line here.

    Comment

    • bj139
      Chieftain
      • Mar 2017
      • 1968

      #32
      Sticks,

      Could you go to 17 Valkyrie and get even more improvement from a 95 grain bullet?

      There must be other problems with a bullet that long in 22 cal, I think.

      Comment

      • BluntForceTrauma
        Administrator
        • Feb 2011
        • 3897

        #33
        A .224 90gr SMK or 90gr Berger VLD is a legit bullet. No question. But the SMK BC used in the advertising (0.563) can't be accurate because it's better than Berger's BC (0.534), and the SMK is not sleeker than the VLD. So there's that.

        Second, guys have been necking up and down the 68SPC case (just like they've been doing to the 65G case) within hours of it first coming out. Seriously, many versions of the 224V have existed for years, and there is a body of data already. We could do some Googling to kind of get a baseline to set our expectations more realistically.

        The only interesting thing about this is that a major manufacturer, Federal, is involved. And, on its merits, it seems a well-designed round because they, correctly, shortened the case a bit and, correctly, used a long, high BC bullet.

        For myself, if I HAD to have 90gr .224 bullets in an intermediate case, I'd go with Whitley's 224AR because I already have 65G bolts and mags, and because I think the 65G case is even better suited to getting the most velocity from long 90gr .224 bullets at 2.260-2.300 mag lengths.
        Attached Files
        :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

        :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

        Comment

        • bj139
          Chieftain
          • Mar 2017
          • 1968

          #34
          Thanks for commenting on this BFT.

          When someone says 224 Valkyrie is better than 6.5 Grendel I guess I get offended.

          I still think that 6.5 Grendel occupies the sweet spot in a long range and hunting cartridge with lower recoil. No one really likes recoil.

          I used to think that of a lightly loaded 6.5x55 before the Grendel existed.

          Comment

          • BluntForceTrauma
            Administrator
            • Feb 2011
            • 3897

            #35
            Originally posted by bj139 View Post
            When someone says 224 Valkyrie is better than 6.5 Grendel I guess I get offended.
            Me too, but I try to be objective. Number One Rule of new cartridge introductions is Never Believe the Hype. We learned THAT with the whole 6.8 SPC roll-out (hyped at 2800 fps with a 115gr in a 16" bbl, and assuredly the next U.S. military small arms cartridge).

            Anyway, being objective, 224 Valkyrie is a very savvy design. We've already talked about its correct use of short/fat, long/sleek principles. Win. Big win!

            Consider also practical manufacturing aspects:

            1. Probably uses widely available .224 1:7 twist barrel blanks. Win. (I think these are enough to stabilize 90-grainers.)

            U P D A T E : Using Berger's Twist Rate Calculator, their .224 90gr VLD at 2700fps in a 1:7 twist in worst-case scenarios (sea level in zero-degree temps) has "marginal stability" and is losing 9% BC.

            2. Uses widely available 6.8 SPC bolts and magazines. Win.

            3. Not only can it load the very best 90gr .224 long-range projectiles at mag length, it also can use the wide array of other .224 bullets — the very many 77-grainers, for example — with less intrusion into the powder column than .223 Rem cases for velocity gains. Win.

            I'm gonna hafta tentatively declare this my SECOND favorite factory AR cartridge. I probably will never actually get one — cuz we still haven't done super sleek all-copper 90-grainers in the 6.5 Grendel! — but it would be the only other factory AR cartridge I'd consider.

            P.S. Number 4. Cool name. Win!
            :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

            :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

            Comment

            • JASmith
              Chieftain
              • Sep 2014
              • 1620

              #36
              Originally posted by Sticks View Post
              More powder behind that Valkyrie round I'll bet.

              The 3k FPS, I did not play with the numbers much, just hit something that kept it close to trans sonic at 1300 - per their advert. for super sonic at 1300. I'll bet it's close.
              The 22 Nosler has slightly more powder capacity and should run at about the same pressures, unless I got confused about body diameters.
              shootersnotes.com

              "To those who have fought and almost died for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
              -- Author Unknown

              "If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished!" -- Milton Berle

              Comment

              • StoneHendge
                Chieftain
                • May 2016
                • 2009

                #37
                Unless someone is really good at photoshop.....

                IMG_3548.jpg


                It actually had me thinking for a bit, but then I asked why when you can push 105 grains out of a 6mm Grendel at similar or better velocities with nearly the same BC and 20% more mass and sectional density.....

                And then there's the question of Federal brass. Okay, its not going to be as bad as 22 Nosler brass which isn't worthy of being melted down and stamped into switch plates in a Chinese factory to be sold at WalMart, but it is about as soft as it can get.....
                Let's go Brandon!

                Comment

                • JASmith
                  Chieftain
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 1620

                  #38
                  Are we supposed to ignore the velocity call out in the image StoneHendge posted?

                  BTW That velocity seems about right for the powder volume and pressure.
                  shootersnotes.com

                  "To those who have fought and almost died for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
                  -- Author Unknown

                  "If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished!" -- Milton Berle

                  Comment

                  • BluntForceTrauma
                    Administrator
                    • Feb 2011
                    • 3897

                    #39
                    Originally posted by JASmith View Post
                    Are we supposed to ignore the velocity call out in the image StoneHendge posted?
                    Rule 1: Never believe cartridge introduction hype. Guilty until proven innocent — or independently verified — as the case may be.

                    But, yes, velocity of 2700fps seems right for a 20" or 24" barrel. They don't say, but usually they use a 24"?

                    I can't prove it, but I dispute the 90 SMK BC of 0.563.
                    :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

                    :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

                    Comment

                    • Double Naught Spy
                      Chieftain
                      • Sep 2013
                      • 2560

                      #40
                      Distrust but verify? LOL.

                      A buddy of mine called me about this, before I read the thread and did some checking. I told him 'no way in hell were they getting that sort of performance,' but the numbers work if the numbers are true. Might be a fun round.

                      Yeah, but I don't think I will be an early adopter. If it is genuine and good, it will be around for next Christmas.
                      Kill a hog. Save the planet.
                      My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

                      Comment

                      • Arkhangel5
                        Warrior
                        • Apr 2016
                        • 229

                        #41
                        Originally posted by BluntForceTrauma View Post
                        I can't prove it, but I dispute the 90 SMK BC of 0.563.
                        I agree with you BFT. Before they revised it, the Berger 90gr VLD bc was .551. I have a box left over. The Berger 90gr LRBT's bc was listed as .512.

                        On MidwayUSA, they list the bc of the Sierra 90 as .504.

                        I wonder where they got that number from?

                        SY

                        Comment

                        • StoneHendge
                          Chieftain
                          • May 2016
                          • 2009

                          #42
                          Not questioning the velocity. Funny thing is I got 22 Nosler box velocity out of an 18"

                          Along with ejector marks you can feel with your finger.
                          Let's go Brandon!

                          Comment

                          • pajasonc
                            Warrior
                            • Dec 2016
                            • 203

                            #43
                            No question this will eat into grendel sales for those looking for a long range shooter or varmint gun. It won't do as well as a hunting rifle though.

                            Comment

                            • BluntForceTrauma
                              Administrator
                              • Feb 2011
                              • 3897

                              #44
                              Originally posted by Arkhangel5 View Post
                              I wonder where they got that number from?
                              Number is from Sierra website for their .224 90gr SMK.

                              I think of Sierra as being honest when it comes to BCs, but I'm still calling it an error. Can't be better than Berger's VLD of the same weight.
                              :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

                              :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

                              Comment

                              • LRRPF52
                                Super Moderator
                                • Sep 2014
                                • 8569

                                #45
                                Good cartridge, but not supersonic to 1300yds even with the 90gr VLD that they aren't loading.

                                The number they're showing is 2700fps mv, but we don't know the barrel length. Some say 20", some say 24".

                                Either way, it's a factory option for AR15s backed by Federal, so for these gas gun matches and varmints, it makes a great round.

                                I would have liked to see a 6mm but with good brass. Somebody needs to jump on the 6mm Grendel factory ammo support wagon for competitors.

                                None of the .224 bullets come close to the 6mm target bullets.
                                NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                                CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                                6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                                www.AR15buildbox.com

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