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Thread: .224 Valkyrie? Future competitor to the 6.5 Grendel?

  1. #101
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    as someone said....( Marketing ) it often overrides real world use or need.....especially in the gun world.....

  2. #102
    Super Moderator LRRPF52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HowaGrendel View Post
    as someone said....( Marketing ) it often overrides real world use or need.....especially in the gun world.....
    There are legitimate performance advantages to 2700fps with a .264-.274 G7 BC when shooting distance.

    Wind drift is the biggest one.

    .224 Valkyrie, given the stated mv's and known BCs of the 90gr SMK and Berger, will have less wind drift and drop than a Grendel no matter how you slice it.

    You would have to get a 123gr bullet with a higher BC than the 123gr Scenar going 2700fps to match the Valkyrie for wind.

    That speed is possible with hand loads using CFE223 from 24" barrels, but the only bullets I'm aware of with a better BC are solids like the 121gr Flatline, and I doubt you're going to get much past 2500fps with those, let alone the $62.4/100 cost.

    If you made a 107gr or 110gr that is as long as a 130gr Berger VLD in 6.5mm, then you could match the muzzle velocity of the Valkyrie from a Grendel, and match or exceed the BC.

    A 90gr with the same BC is going to have less drop either way, but I care more about wind.
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  3. #103
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    Well, it's for real. Will I be lining up to get one? it didn't make me feel like I had to have one - which is odd for any AR. Lol

    Instructor was/is working on prototype JP barrel and brought it to Blue Steel Ranch. 20" barrel with R+2" / 1:7 twist pushing factory 90 gr SMKs in the low 2600s. Shot a 5 shot group with it at the sight in range and it's pretty damn accurate- especially since was getting broken in. Stock was way too short for me so I strung the group vertically around an inch but it was around 1/2" horizontal. Hard to judge recoil since it had a full auto rated Thunderbeast on it and a PRS. Felt like a 223. My guess is that it will be like my 22 Nosler - a sharp 223 - without the hefty can.

    Winds were 15+ mph when instructor had it at the KD range. Was really hard for me to see hits on the heavier plates and with the lighter splash with the wind. I did take it to 1k on the last day in the morning calm, but their 1k plate is really heavy and I didn't see any movement or splash but instructor saw trace go in. One of the students rifles went down early the second day (Jewell trigger on a 6.5 CM Surgeon). He ended up using the 224V for the better part of 2 days without knowing what it was! Wasn't hard to see/hear most hits out to 700 on a relatively calm day, but my Grendel was smacking them a lot harder last year pushing factory Amax around 2450. I guess one benefit is that we did a timed stage with 2 shots on each target. Lighter hits mean you don't have to wait for the plate to stop swinging for as long.

    90 gr VLDs probably won't shoot well due to jump. Barrel life of around 8k is what Federal is thinking with factory ammo. Pressure is relatively low - powder charges are closer to 223 than Grendel. Was also noted that Federal has been working on hardening their case heads.
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  4. #104
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    Will Federal going in on .224V, does that mean they have some military contract in the works as well?

  5. #105
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    Pure opinion -- probably not, except for possibly unadvertised tests just to see what it can do.

    The arguments against a move like that are very similar to those that have kept the 6.8, the Grendel, and a host of othe 'slightly better than' cartridges seeing more daylight in military procurement channels.
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  6. #106
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    I would get a 224AR before getting a Valkyrie. I wonder if Larue would chamber a barrel for it?

  7. #107
    Super Moderator LRRPF52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneHendge View Post
    Well, it's for real. Will I be lining up to get one? it didn't make me feel like I had to have one - which is odd for any AR. Lol

    Instructor was/is working on prototype JP barrel and brought it to Blue Steel Ranch. 20" barrel with R+2" / 1:7 twist pushing factory 90 gr SMKs in the low 2600s. Shot a 5 shot group with it at the sight in range and it's pretty damn accurate- especially since was getting broken in. Stock was way too short for me so I strung the group vertically around an inch but it was around 1/2" horizontal. Hard to judge recoil since it had a full auto rated Thunderbeast on it and a PRS. Felt like a 223. My guess is that it will be like my 22 Nosler - a sharp 223 - without the hefty can.

    Winds were 15+ mph when instructor had it at the KD range. Was really hard for me to see hits on the heavier plates and with the lighter splash with the wind. I did take it to 1k on the last day in the morning calm, but their 1k plate is really heavy and I didn't see any movement or splash but instructor saw trace go in. One of the students rifles went down early the second day (Jewell trigger on a 6.5 CM Surgeon). He ended up using the 224V for the better part of 2 days without knowing what it was! Wasn't hard to see/hear most hits out to 700 on a relatively calm day, but my Grendel was smacking them a lot harder last year pushing factory Amax around 2450. I guess one benefit is that we did a timed stage with 2 shots on each target. Lighter hits mean you don't have to wait for the plate to stop swinging for as long.

    90 gr VLDs probably won't shoot well due to jump. Barrel life of around 8k is what Federal is thinking with factory ammo. Pressure is relatively low - powder charges are closer to 223 than Grendel. Was also noted that Federal has been working on hardening their case heads.
    This post means a lot more when you're familiar with the range down there-awesome facility really.

    That's my biggest complaint with .223 pushing 77s as well. It's very hard to get a register on a plate, even when you center-punch it when there is typical wind for out here in the Western US.

    It's not like Grendel hits a plate like a magnum, but you definitely hear it even at 1000yds most of the time, even from shorter barrels.

    I personally get the most satisfaction from 7mm Magnums, .300 Win Mag, or .338 LM with high BC bullets on steel if you want to hear it get beat like John Bonham trying to destroy his kick drum heads.

    That 28 Nosler or 7mm WSM on steel with a 180-195 Berger is a sound of pure joy, but you aren't sitting down and launching 100 of them in a day without gas-checking your throat into hell.

    The .224 Valkyrie will be a great solution for these newer gas gun matches with ranges typically in the 300-700yd distances.

    In the wind, 700 and 800yd plates are often hard to get solid RO-observed registers with 6mm 105s going fast, so there is no free lunch.

    Buddy of mine specifically made a 7mm WSSM wildcat for this reason for PRS shooting the 195gr Berger EOL. Makes the plates try to wrap around the hangar bar on impact.

    ROs love it, but there is more recoil to disrupt sight picture.
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  8. #108
    I've definitely seen this 7mm wildcat in action. it did amazing work on a rifle spinner target at 200 yards

  9. #109
    Warrior StoneHendge's Avatar
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    Well, JP is taking orders for anyone who wants to jump right in. Charging $40 more than a Grendel barrel lol.

    http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.1_barrel.php

    Interesting that the 20”ers have an XL gas system.
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  10. #110
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    It's a tight bore with more case volume, so port pressure at RLGS pushing a long-for-caliber bullet will be higher if you leave it at RLGS.

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  11. #111
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    Savage and Seekins Precision are onboard with it now too.

    Midway has ammo listings. https://www.midwayusa.com/224-valkyrie/br?cid=23669

    Federal American Eagle is close to Wolf 6.5 Steel case price, $11.50 a box. Federal Gold Metal Match with Sierra 90s is $25.00.

    Looks like it will be a interesting year.

  12. #112
    Warrior StoneHendge's Avatar
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    Too bad 22 Nosler brass sucks since the new 85 grain RDF should give the 224V with the 90 gr Sierras a run for its money:

    22cal-85gr-RDF-bullet-info.jpg

    There is factory ammo but no ballistics yet

    https://www.nosler.com/match-grade-rdf/

    0.245 G7 vs 0.256 for the 90 gr SMK, but it looks like it was probably designed around the 22 Nosler and will take advantage of the larger case. Nosler load data has it going 2850 out of a 24" with CFE 223 and over 2900 with RL 17!

    I still have my 22 Nosler barrel - someone else please please please please make brass!
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  13. #113
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    The new sierra 95grain match king will be good in the 224V.

  14. #114
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    +1, Without a doubt BFT. And there is the 160 gr Round Nose and the Solids when you can find them.

  15. #115
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    Seems ammo popped up quicker for the 224V than grendel, and at better prices.

    Seeing the Fed. American eagle that cheap, makes me want to ditch the G for the V! I looked up brass prices.... also cheaper than grendel.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmccracken View Post
    Seems ammo popped up quicker for the 224V than grendel, and at better prices.

    Seeing the Fed. American eagle that cheap, makes me want to ditch the G for the V! I looked up brass prices.... also cheaper than grendel.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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  17. #117
    Warrior Randy99CL's Avatar
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    Really guys, it's so easy to get the wrong impression.

    Look at the Midway prices.
    That Federal AE is 75gr FMJ, who wants that? And it's still twice+ as much as Wolf 6.5: https://www.outdoorlimited.com/Produ...e=wpa65grenfmj

    Sure, that AE is fairly cheap, but anything with better bullets costs as much or more than our 6.5G.

  18. #118
    JM, you're right. That's really interesting. This just gives the lie to ammo pricing practices.

    At this point the installed based of 224V users is much, much smaller than 65G users.

    And I guarantee you there is no real difference in component prices for brass, bullets, and powder between the two.

    But I just checked MidwayUSA for reference. You're right, they're selling 224V much cheaper. 224V is $11.29/20. 65G is $26.49/20. (Granted, FMJ vs. HPBT, but it's a cheap HPBT, so manufacturing cost not that different.)

    Just goes to show that Federal is choosing to give a big boost to their baby, the cartridge that they invented.

    Reminds me of the old record company and movie studio "hit-makers" and "star-makers." Harvey Weinstein would know what I mean.

    I like the concept of the 224V. I have a soft spot in my heart for "fat-case, long-bullet" cartridges.

    Still think it's gonna prove to be over-hyped.

    I have my favorite cartridge, but I support you guys having as many cartridges as suits you. It's good to have guns. Lots of guns.
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy99CL View Post
    That Federal AE is 75gr FMJ, who wants that?


    FMJ is my preferred bullet type, so if I were to go for .224 Valkyrie, that Federal AE load is undoubtedly what I'd buy.

    But, I've never liked .22 caliber. I just wish they'd make a 6mm Valkyrie. That would be nearly my ideal AR cartridge.
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  20. #120
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    6x6.8? I just bought a BHW barrel in that chambering. Maybe 6mm Valkyrie improved?

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