Bad Range Day

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  • GrumpyGunGuy
    Unwashed
    • Apr 2017
    • 5

    Bad Range Day

    I have lurked around on this reloading forum for quite some time. I have an 18" barreled Grendel AR that is one I built on my own to my specs. In hindsight I may have gone with a 20" barrel, but this is where I find myself and I'm going to stick with it. For that reason I've been looking for a load that will get maximum velocity from a shorter than optimum length barrel. (By the way, the goal of this rifle is primarily for a couple of local long range matches per year and recreational long range target shooting.) After reading this forum I came to the conclusion that CFE223 was the powder that I wanted to use.

    I loaded five rounds each at 31.0, 31.2, 31.4, and 31.6 grains under 123 gr. Nosler Custom Competition bullets with Hornady brass and CCI 450 primers. I shot the 31.0, 31.2, and 31.4 groups and all three looked like a shotgun pattern. The 31.2 was the one I expected to shoot well based on what I'd read here. It didn't shoot at all. At 31.4 pressure looked a little high. I shot only one round of 31.6 and then pulled the plug on the rest of those because the pressure was clearly too high.

    At that point I was concerned that something had gone wrong with the gun since my initial sighting in with Hornady factory ammunition. I pulled out three rounds of Hornady Black and shot a 7/16" group. So the good news is that the gun still shoots. The bad news is that the loads I tried clearly don't work. I have a bunch of the NCC 123 gr. bullets. Any advise on powder and powder charges is appreciated.
  • StoneHendge
    Chieftain
    • May 2016
    • 2009

    #2
    Start low and work your way up! 31.2 gr is Hornady's published max. It's a free country so it's okay to endanger yourself, but please don't endanger those around you.

    30.6 is where I found the sweet spot for 120 Scenars cooking along at 2520 out of my 18". I got ejector marks at 31 in my development. 30.8 pushes a 123 scenar at 2560 out of my 22 JP and is far more accurate than I'll ever be.
    Let's go Brandon!

    Comment

    • Texas
      Chieftain
      • Jun 2016
      • 1230

      #3
      We shot a ladder from 27.0 through 30.2 in .2 gr increments using hornady brass, CCI 400 Primers, CFE223, and hornady 123 SST. The 27.0 was by far the best group.

      Comment

      • terrywick4
        Warrior
        • Sep 2014
        • 181

        #4
        I could never get the nosler 123 cc to group well. the Amax are tight 3/8" but the nosler are bad, bad. . 2-3" Luckily I got the CC's cheap but unfortunately I thought I had a decent load and loaded up all of them. Now they are just for close range trigger time. Am thinking of pulling them and saving the brass/primers for something my two grendels like.

        Comment

        • Kilco
          Chieftain
          • Jan 2016
          • 1201

          #5
          I never could find the sweet spot for CFE223 in my Grendel..

          However my recent Grendel wildcat is absolutely loving it..

          If you have access to some, try 8208 and ARCOMP. One of those will be sure to show you some love.

          Comment

          • VASCAR2
            Chieftain
            • Mar 2011
            • 6219

            #6
            A Friend has a Brownell’s 18” Grendel II chamber and his does not like the 123 grain Nosler CC. He found an accurate load with the 120 grain SMK but his barrel really didn’t like 123 grain SMK either. I think he also tried Accurate 2520 powder with 123 grain bullets but never hit on the accuracy he wanted. Every barrel is unique, like mentioned above I’d try 8208, AR Comp. Other powders that work with 120,123 & 125 grain bullets, Leverevolution, Accurate 2520, Vith N-540, Winchester 748 or BLC2.

            Comment

            • 1911man
              Warrior
              • May 2015
              • 482

              #7
              Originally posted by Kilco View Post
              I never could find the sweet spot for CFE223 in my Grendel..

              However my recent Grendel wildcat is absolutely loving it..

              If you have access to some, try 8208 and ARCOMP. One of those will be sure to show you some love.
              I second this suggestion. I have played around with several bullet/powder combos in a few Grendel barrels now and I have found both AR Comp and XBR to produce good groups in each of my barrels with the 123 AMAX and ELD. I have not played with the 123 Nosler though.

              Comment

              • just_john
                Chieftain
                • Sep 2012
                • 1565

                #8
                GrumpyGunGuy - did you start with some kind of factory loaded stuff so that there would be a reasonable point of reference? What kind of sighting device are you using ( ie - with a 5 moa red dot even the best rounds will look like a shotgun at 50 yds )?

                Comment

                • terrywick4
                  Warrior
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 181

                  #9
                  Originally posted by 1911man View Post
                  I second this suggestion. I have played around with several bullet/powder combos in a few Grendel barrels now and I have found both AR Comp and XBR to produce good groups in each of my barrels with the 123 AMAX and ELD. I have not played with the 123 Nosler though.
                  careful with 8208 and 123 grain bullets the ok pressure and too much pressure is a fine line. There has been some threads on this discussion. Someone with a sheared lug hopefully will chime in on this.

                  Comment

                  • Kilco
                    Chieftain
                    • Jan 2016
                    • 1201

                    #10
                    Originally posted by terrywick4 View Post
                    careful with 8208 and 123 grain bullets the ok pressure and too much pressure is a fine line. There has been some threads on this discussion. Someone with a sheared lug hopefully will chime in on this.
                    I used hodgdons load data using the Grendel cartridges max load which is within Grendel SAAMI spec using 8208 and numerous 123s and have over 1300 rounds downrange, some is rapid succession on a "budget" bolt and SAAMI chamber and never saw a lick of pressure, or abuse to the rifle.

                    I know the info is our there not to exceed 28.5gr of 8208 with a 123gr projectile, but regardless that's the SAAMI max pressure of the Grendel Cartridge.

                    I would suggest anyone using ANY powder with thier home brews work up to max, and if they decide to exceed SAAMI max pressure with ANY powder they are asking for trouble.

                    ....but yes, 8208 can be peaky in most cartridges. I have found simply to stay within SAAMI spec pressures with 8208 and in using it for 204 Ruger, 5.56, 30 Rem AR, 6.5 Grendel, and 308 win I've never had any scary moments even working up to max loads.

                    Comment

                    • terrywick4
                      Warrior
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 181

                      #11
                      Dusted of my old J&T/Double Star Grendel and shot it for the first time in a couple of years. Broke the extractor. Bolt is fine otherwise. I'm shooting Amex 123 with 28.5 grains of 8208. I was reading through some recent threads where members were saying that might be too hot. This use to be the default go to load about for

                      Comment

                      • Kilco
                        Chieftain
                        • Jan 2016
                        • 1201

                        #12
                        Good thread, but quickload is known to be innacurate for the Grendel.. especially when comparing it directly to hodgdons pressure testing... that's just me though.. always work up in your rifles!!

                        Comment

                        • GrumpyGunGuy
                          Unwashed
                          • Apr 2017
                          • 5

                          #13
                          The factory Hornady loads work well (e.g. 7/16" with Hornady Black). I have not tried the Federal or other factory loads. The gun will shoot but the Nosler bullets might be the problem. I guess I'm going to try some in the 29-30 grain range with the CFE223 and see what happens.

                          I also have some RL15 and IMR4895. The Nosler guide lists those but they don't seem very popular on here.
                          Last edited by GrumpyGunGuy; 10-15-2017, 06:24 PM.

                          Comment

                          • GrumpyGunGuy
                            Unwashed
                            • Apr 2017
                            • 5

                            #14
                            Even at 31.6 I wasn't getting ejector marks. Just a very flat primer.

                            Comment

                            • ricsmall
                              Warrior
                              • Sep 2014
                              • 987

                              #15
                              In my experience the 123 CC’s like to be loaded somewhat mild in the Grendel. IIRC somewhere around 2450 fps
                              Member since 2011, data lost in last hack attack

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