Some FNG and hopefully not so FNG questions.

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  • Jaggy13
    Unwashed
    • Oct 2017
    • 20

    Some FNG and hopefully not so FNG questions.

    I am building a 20" upper out of an Odin works barrel and bolt. (AR DI)
    Topping with a SIG Tango6 2-12.
    Most shots will be suppressed - not sure that will matter but it's a known variable.
    I shoot a bit of competition and use 223/556 as well as 260 REM. (Fairly high volume)
    I have copious amounts of military pull down powder for the 223 loads,
    and also large amounts of H4350 for my 260 REM.
    I haven't seen much data for either but would like to use what I have if realistic and anyone has experience.
    I plan to start off with some factory ammo but would like to move to reloading soon. Primary function will be hunting/mid range competition.
    I don't plan to use this build for the volume of my others, but you never know...
    My questions are;
    Is there any reason not to work up a load with pull down powder? ( Like WC844)

    Is there a reason not to work up a load for h4350? (I like how temp stable it is)

    Is it worth investing in Lapua brass for a mid range gas gun? (That's all I run in my 260REM)

    Is sub MOA worth chasing? (My 223 shoot .75 loading on a progressive... I would have to triple my time investment to marginally improve it.)

    My barrel is 20" 1in8 twist, Is it worth trying to make my 139grn scenars work in this? Or just stick with 120's? (I have large volume on hand for the REM)

    Great spot you guys have here, thanks in advance!
  • BluntForceTrauma
    Administrator
    • Feb 2011
    • 3897

    #2
    Have you considered practicing with the Wolf 6.5 Grendel steel-case? Might be less hassle than pull-downs.
    :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

    :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

    Comment

    • Jaggy13
      Unwashed
      • Oct 2017
      • 20

      #3
      Originally posted by BluntForceTrauma View Post
      Have you considered practicing with the Wolf 6.5 Grendel steel-case? Might be less hassle than pull-downs.
      I'll give it a try for sure.
      I'm just assuming I will want to fine tune the load.
      But if it's good enough I may stick with it.
      I just load so much in all my other calibers I'm sure I'll end up loading for this too.

      Comment

      • VASCAR2
        Chieftain
        • Mar 2011
        • 6219

        #4
        I think WC844 powder is very similar to the burn rate of H-335 which works very well with lighter bullets (85-107 grain) in 6.5 Grendel. I’m not sure there is any load data for WC844 in the 6.5 Grendel. I think Lapua is very good brass and worth what it cost as long as you don’t loose it at the range.

        With price of Hornady Black 123 grain ELD-M, which is accurate ammo, I think it makes sense to buy factory Hornady and reload the brass. Hornady Black can be found for less than $20 per box, hard to buy components and brass to assemble first set of reloads for that price. Many people are getting ten reloads on Hornady brass.

        If your in the market for brass the best price I’ve found for Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass at Midsouth shooters supply for bags of 100 count Hornady brass. Midsouth has Hornady on sale 100 pieces for $45.99 plus shipping.

        Last edited by VASCAR2; 10-18-2017, 11:08 PM.

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        • Jaggy13
          Unwashed
          • Oct 2017
          • 20

          #5
          Originally posted by VASCAR2 View Post
          I think WC844 powder is very similar to the burn rate of H-335 which works very well with lighter bullets (85-107 grain) in 6.5 Grendel. I’m not sure there is any load data for WC844 in the 6.5 Grendel. I think Lapua is very good brass and worth what it cost as long as you don’t loose it at the range.

          With price of Hornady Black 123 grain ELD-M, which is accurate ammo, I think it makes sense to buy factory Hornady and reload the brass. Hornady Black can be found for less than $20 per box, hard to buy components and brass to assemble first set of reloads for that price. Many people are getting ten reloads on Hornady brass.

          If your in the market for brass the best price I’ve found for Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass at Midsouth shooters supply for bags of 100 count Hornady brass. Midsouth has Hornady on sale 100 pieces for $45.99 plus shipping.

          https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...rass-100-count
          great advice! Thanks!
          I will probably buy some of the hornady black if that is an accurate and decent priced option. I'll have to give the steel case wolf a try as well.

          Comment

          • Sticks
            Chieftain
            • Dec 2016
            • 1922

            #6
            Not sure what type of accuracy you are looking for, but I doubt you will find it in wolf. The best that I have managed to get out of it is 1.3 MOA 5 shot group, followed by a .3 MOA 5 shot of Hornady 123 ELD. I was on my game that day.

            I'd shoot some factory ammo, decide what weight pill you want to send down range, then start some load work ups really freaking low with the mystery pull down powder.

            I did the same with Wolf ammo, reusing everything but the undersized wolf bullet. I was surprised to get the results that I did. Fair velocity, spooky good group given the steel case and inconstant neck tension.
            Sticks

            Catchy sig line here.

            Comment

            • Jaggy13
              Unwashed
              • Oct 2017
              • 20

              #7
              Originally posted by Sticks View Post
              Not sure what type of accuracy you are looking for, but I doubt you will find it in wolf. The best that I have managed to get out of it is 1.3 MOA 5 shot group, followed by a .3 MOA 5 shot of Hornady 123 ELD. I was on my game that day.

              I'd shoot some factory ammo, decide what weight pill you want to send down range, then start some load work ups really freaking low with the mystery pull down powder.

              I did the same with Wolf ammo, reusing everything but the undersized wolf bullet. I was surprised to get the results that I did. Fair velocity, spooky good group given the steel case and inconstant neck tension.
              So, I guess that's part of what I'm asking. If I can get .5 moa accuracy without much effort then that's probably good enough. But if I can get .25 moa by neck sizing and working with the neck tension, anealing cases and so on then I probably will.
              My 260 is $.64 per round before brass. If I can buy .3 Ammo off the shelf for $1 and just shoot... that's gonna be hard to pass up!
              Although if I start shooting a couple K a year in round count like the others, I'll have to step up the reloading game.
              I will enjoy that first 500 rounds though!

              Any other Ammo to look at? Or just grab that Black and don't look back?

              I'm OCD to the max on my lapua brass for the REM. keep it sorted by firings, anealings, and never a different head stamp.

              But with a gas gun, I shouldn't need to worry that much right? Especially at mid range distances...

              Comment

              • Jaggy13
                Unwashed
                • Oct 2017
                • 20

                #8
                got the stick out today and it shot decent with the "Black" ammo
                I was able to get about .8 moa at 100 but it was vertically stringing a little more than I would have expected.
                Suppressed and unsuppressed were similar groups.
                I only had time for about 30 shots, so I will give it a few more chances before I do anything drastic.
                I was also able to get some good hits on an 8" piece of steel at 550 yards, allowing to reverse engineer the BC given my muzzle velocity. (2424 -2860 FPS)
                When I get some long range practice in, I'll stretch it out and really fine tune the BC.
                I got back to back hits dead center then missed the next 3 shots .5 mil low. That's where the head scratching started.
                I wasn't on a hot barrel or anything.
                That's where I ran out of time, going from acceptable to I may want to work up a load now and find the accuracy node.
                But I will continue to break it in and see if it mellows out. I'm pretty close though. I think if it shot .5 MOA I may not bother trying to load for it.

                My overall impression is very positive. I went with an adjustable gas block which is huge for the suppressor. I tuned it just lock the bolt back without and it tames the recoil considerably.
                I recommend that for anyone in the market.

                Thanks for the help fellas, I'll keep ya posted!

                Comment

                • StoneHendge
                  Chieftain
                  • May 2016
                  • 2009

                  #9
                  H4350 is going to be too slow for Grendel. Save that precious powder for your 260!

                  The G7 for the Hornady black is .255. I found it surfing around the World Wide Web and plugged it into my app and it was spot on
                  Let's go Brandon!

                  Comment

                  • Jaggy13
                    Unwashed
                    • Oct 2017
                    • 20

                    #10
                    Originally posted by StoneHendge View Post
                    H4350 is going to be too slow for Grendel. Save that precious powder for your 260!

                    The G7 for the Hornady black is .255. I found it surfing around the World Wide Web and plugged it into my app and it was spot on
                    Thanks!
                    I will save the 4350 for sure.
                    also, I just plugged in the .255 g7 and that's interesting.

                    I came up with .32 that gave me U4.2 mils at 550, that hit the first two shots. Then I started hitting about .5 low.
                    When I plug in your value, it gives me U4.6 mils at 550. So I am feeling better about this now.
                    I'll try to hold judgement a little while longer and give this a chance to break in a tad more.

                    Comment

                    • Jaggy13
                      Unwashed
                      • Oct 2017
                      • 20

                      #11
                      I got out again yesterday, and was able to replicate the same groups.
                      Basically this is shooting just under 1 MOA at all given ranges.
                      100 yard was .8
                      300 was .5 vertically and .9 left to right.
                      550 was .7 vertically and .8 left to right.
                      And I was able to replicate the .5 mil drop at range.
                      basically I think my barrel warms up and the suppressor is enough of a weight on the end to make it droop.
                      I'm not sure I can do anything about it, and for hunting I don't think it will be an issue.
                      If I decide to shoot any PRS with it, I will just adjust on the fly knowing shots after 10 may be dropping in.
                      I'm also considering cutting it down to 18" and see if I loose much more velocity. being at 2450 I'm already missing out on the "standard velocity" a 22" barrel should yield.
                      Before I make any rash decisions though, I think I will work up a load for it. After all, .8 with the first off the shelf ammo I bought in a gas gun is nothing to scoff at.

                      Thanks for all the great feedback guys!
                      This is filling a niche in my stable that I have wanted for a very long time.

                      Comment

                      • Jaggy13
                        Unwashed
                        • Oct 2017
                        • 20

                        #12
                        alright, well I cut my barrel down to 18"
                        I am curious how much velocity I will loose.
                        I'll post up some chrono numbers.
                        I'm also curious to see if my groups improve.
                        There was a fair amount of run out on the threads, My suppressor had a significant amount of POI shift.
                        Also curious to see if I can clean that up a bit so I went for it and cut it down. Hope I didn't make a huge mistake!
                        current velocity on the black horandy 123grn ammo was 1450ish. Any guesses what it will be with an 18" instead of 20" barrel?
                        post up! I should be able to chrono this weekend sometime.

                        Comment

                        • Randy99CL
                          Warrior
                          • Oct 2017
                          • 562

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Sticks View Post
                          I did the same with Wolf ammo, reusing everything but the undersized wolf bullet.
                          I've been casually researching powder-coating bullets but have never seen how much it adds to the OD of the bullet. If it could put a thousandth or two on those Wolf bullets it could make them (somewhat) useful.
                          "In any war, political or battlefield; truth is the first casualty."

                          Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

                          Comment

                          • Sticks
                            Chieftain
                            • Dec 2016
                            • 1922

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Jaggy13 View Post
                            alright, well I cut my barrel down to 18"
                            I am curious how much velocity I will loose.
                            I'll post up some chrono numbers.
                            I'm also curious to see if my groups improve.
                            There was a fair amount of run out on the threads, My suppressor had a significant amount of POI shift.
                            Also curious to see if I can clean that up a bit so I went for it and cut it down. Hope I didn't make a huge mistake!
                            current velocity on the black horandy 123grn ammo was 1450ish. Any guesses what it will be with an 18" instead of 20" barrel?
                            post up! I should be able to chrono this weekend sometime.
                            You meant 2450 right?

                            I am getting 2477 out of my 18" Barlitien. You will probably land in the 2425 zone. Shorter than 18" the velocity drops a lot more per inch.

                            Originally posted by Randy99CL View Post
                            I've been casually researching powder-coating bullets but have never seen how much it adds to the OD of the bullet. If it could put a thousandth or two on those Wolf bullets it could make them (somewhat) useful.
                            Good thought. You would have to swage the bullets when you were done.

                            I don't know what the powder coating will do to a barrel though.
                            Sticks

                            Catchy sig line here.

                            Comment

                            • Jaggy13
                              Unwashed
                              • Oct 2017
                              • 20

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Sticks View Post
                              You meant 2450 right?
                              Yes! Sorry, typo...
                              I'll post up my results.

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