position of your weapon in relation to your body .and why?

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  • #16
    The OP basically asked how we shoot. I took the OP's original question to mean "basic marksmanship". There are so many different position, variables and techiniques, many of which are situation driven. It's also driven by the type of weapon you are using. Each weapon has a different form and function. But, the basics still apply to each one. If you can't repeat the basics, then you can't shoot the same each different time you shoot.

    We could all agree that shooting while running and wearing a gas mask while wearing all your battle rattle is much different than shooting wearing blue jeans and a hoody at a shooting bench at the local range (which is how alot of the people on these forums shoot). In combat, I couldn't even put the butt where I normally would because my ballistic vest and gear wouldn't allow it.

    If a person that has never shot before came to me and asked me how they should hold and shoot their rifle. I would teach them the basic stance with the rifle butt in the pocket I spoke of earlier (although there is much more to it than just that). I would hope to teach them the importance of repeatability and muscle memory. Once they've mastered the basics, then maybe I would teach them some of the more advance techniques.

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    • #17
      Try as it may, proper positioning is something that you are going to need, and lots of actually. It will be very tough to go with something that is very hard to keep up with and lose yourself halfway in the battle for position. That is just how you should make things to be, just so everything will be much clearer from here hence. Just make sure that you are going to position well so you could avoid problems and aches.

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      • #18
        Ballance and relaxed muscles are key to optimum accuracy. The reason match rifles outperform service rifles is simply because the rifle can be adjusted to the shooters natural point of aim with no muscle tension. Ideally you start with no sights adjusting the stock fit so that you can hit a 6" circle at 200 yards without sights, then insert the sights between your eye and the target. I've done this and it is very effective.
        Bob

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        • txgunner00
          Chieftain
          • Mar 2011
          • 2070

          #19
          Interesting trick. I'll have to remember that.
          NRA life, GOA life, SAF, and TSRA

          "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

          George Mason, co-author, 2nd Amendment.

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          • LR1955
            Super Moderator
            • Mar 2011
            • 3355

            #20
            Originally posted by stokesrj View Post
            Ballance and relaxed muscles are key to optimum accuracy. The reason match rifles outperform service rifles is simply because the rifle can be adjusted to the shooters natural point of aim with no muscle tension. Ideally you start with no sights adjusting the stock fit so that you can hit a 6" circle at 200 yards without sights, then insert the sights between your eye and the target. I've done this and it is very effective.
            Bob
            Bob:

            What match rifle are you using that balances off hand? Every one I have owned or fired has always been front heavy and hardest to balance off hand compared to seated or prone. This includes numerous barrels on a T2K, four or five different M-70 bolt rifles, and three AR match rifles. All have been very front heavy compared to a service rifle. In fact, I would bet most who shoot match rifle would rather shoot a service rifle off hand just because of the difficulty in balance.

            As for shooting repeated 10's at 200 without sights......... That one I will only believe if I personally witness it.

            However, if others are thinking about the concept of adjusting the rifle to fit you before putting on the sights, it is sound. The reason is because if you plop the sights on the rifle first, you will focus your position around the location of the sights and not based on how your body wants to hold the rifle. Of course this is done with a match rifle where the stock adjusts for length of pull, cant and cast. And, on some match rifles you can also adjust cant the forend in order to better fit your non firing hand.

            So, we remove the sights and adjust the rifle to fit us. Then we put on the sights based on our natural head position.

            That said, here is another thing that most find blasphemous. For rapid fires -- seated and prone -- my stock adjustments are based on efficiency and ease of bolt manipulation first. I can always adjust the rear sight for sight relief but if your bolt manipulation is off, just a fraction of an inch because of a poor position, you have increased your problems with rapid fires. This was particularly true when we were shooting the 06 and .308 due to their recoil. With the AR gas gun match rifles, I adjust it based on comfort of the firing hand in terms of its ability to confidently pull the pistol grip back into my shoulder. The trigger finger takes care of itself and it doesn't matter what part of the finger pulls the trigger.

            Also note, if you are new at using a match rifle, it will take you a couple of years of work before your rifle adjustments will hold, day in and day out. And remember that what Stokes and I are talking about are based on High Power where your firing lines are flat and there is very little angle up or down to the targets. Once you cross a certain point by having to shoot at a target higher or lower than you, these adjustmsnts no longer work and you have to adjust all over again. Goes back to the purpose of a shooting position which is to align the sights with the eyes and point the barrel at the target.

            LR1955

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            • #21
              Personally...I have seen folks trying to keep the scope as low and as close to bore line as possible. Thus, they bend their head and neck to fit to the scope. I like to mount scopes where they align with "Natural Position".... I mount the rifle, then open my eye...if the scope is low or high, I change the rings until it falls in a "Natural Position"...works for me, may not for all..

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              • pashiner
                Unwashed
                • Mar 2019
                • 24

                #22
                I don't know if this has anything to do with shooting AR's because I'm pretty new to the platform, but I shoot a lot of sporting clays and BPCR, so I'm squarely in the shoulder pocket camp for mitigating recoil, and developing a dead-nutz repeatable mount on the gun. One of the popular training aids for shooting clays is to take the sights/bead off the gun or block it out with tape. Then you adjust the stock to fit the shooter, and blast away at the clay field until scores improve. When you put those sights back on, your eye is much more naturally aligned, and generally stance and mount are improved without any specific coaching. Trying to fit a gun to the shooter or improve a mount with sights still on the gun often leads you down the wrong path because of moving your head to see the sights. It's almost impossible not to! At least that's how it seems to work for high volume snap-shooting at moving targets with a bunch of recoil. For BPCR (black powder cartridge rifle) shooting on the other hand, I also keep the butt deep in my shoulder pocket, but my head and neck are at a funny angle to look through the crazy tall ladder sights. It might be easier to see with the butt more inline with my sternum, but I can't see myself banging through a couple boxes of .45-70 without extensive bruising that way. All that aside, shooting my 24" Grendel AR with a normal A2 style stock in the shoulder pocket feels completely normal to me, but I take a very aggressive forward leaning stance when shooting offhand, similar to shotgunning. It may help to note that I weighted the stock to swing and balance like a good trap gun. So far I like it a lot, your milage may vary.

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                • lazyengineer
                  Chieftain
                  • Feb 2019
                  • 1284

                  #23
                  As thread resurrection goes, this is is impressive.
                  4x P100

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                  • Rangerofthenorth
                    Warrior
                    • Dec 2018
                    • 119

                    #24
                    Holy mother of zombie threads Batman!

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