December 2017 Issue 311 CZ 527 American / 6.5 Grendel Handloads John Haviland

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  • CCW
    Unwashed
    • Apr 2017
    • 17

    December 2017 Issue 311 CZ 527 American / 6.5 Grendel Handloads John Haviland

    Any comments on this article in Handloader magazine? I found it somewhat confusing. But some people find me confusing. Bullet weights, loads, speeds, seemed out of whack. Use of HDY 129 gr SST was not recommended by HDY because of possible ogive/rifling interference when I talked to their ballisticians.
    But, the 6.5 Grendel Handloads table, p.38 lists the 129 gr. version. The HDY Black ELD Match on his table lists 2436, but the HDY factory box lists 2590. My garage chronograph measures 2568 avg. for 24" bbl and 28.3 gr. 8208XBR.

    --CCW
    Last edited by CCW; 10-29-2017, 04:23 AM. Reason: left out magazine name
  • Sticks
    Chieftain
    • Dec 2016
    • 1922

    #2
    Got the link?
    Sticks

    Catchy sig line here.

    Comment

    • DDRanch
      Warrior
      • Jul 2017
      • 314

      #3
      Have not received my December issue as yet.

      Comment

      • CCW
        Unwashed
        • Apr 2017
        • 17

        #4
        Originally posted by Sticks View Post
        Got the link?
        Sorry, that was an article in the Handloader Magazine December 2017 Page 34. I do not have an electronic version of that article.

        --CCW

        Comment

        • LRRPF52
          Super Moderator
          • Sep 2014
          • 8569

          #5
          129gr SST has been a factory load from AA from the start. Hornady also has at least 3 volumes now of published and tested load data for the 129gr SST, dating back to the 8th Edition.

          I'll need to go pick up that issue of Handloader.
          NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

          CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

          6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

          www.AR15buildbox.com

          Comment

          • CCW
            Unwashed
            • Apr 2017
            • 17

            #6
            Could it be that some of the later Grendel chambers are shorter from AR locked bolt face to the lands, and HDY wanted to make sure the longer 129 gr SST did not get into the lands when set out for roll crimp into the cannelure?

            Comment

            • LRRPF52
              Super Moderator
              • Sep 2014
              • 8569

              #7
              I've never had problems shooting the 129gr SST from SAAMI chambers, even loaded longer.

              It's a more secant ogive on that bullet. The actual Litz BC is higher than what Hornady states as well, .495 G1/.247 G7.
              NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

              CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

              6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

              www.AR15buildbox.com

              Comment

              • Bobke
                Warrior
                • Dec 2015
                • 256

                #8
                Seems to me that 2of 3 articles on the Grendel published in Handloader-and I’ve been a subscriber for 30+ years-have been somewhat misinformed about the Grendel and more current component and powder options, leaving the less experienced loader kind of scratching their heads for direction. Norma/Berger bullets and Accurate powders aren’t on the shelf at most of our local shops, and while viable products, not the mainstream of what’s used daily. No 123gr AMax/SST, no Scenars, no Nosler CC’s, no 8208/AR Comp, one load with CFE, pretty anemic velocities and accuracy. And as much of an endorsement of an off brand scope as could be tendered.
                All in, pretty disappointing article, with really limited scope of componentry. I’ve looked forward to every issue of Rifle and Handloader from way back in Ken Waters earlier days, but think their focus on the more obscure these days leaves me still hungry when I leave the table.
                Last edited by Bobke; 11-06-2017, 11:55 AM.

                Comment

                • joedirt199
                  Warrior
                  • Jul 2015
                  • 121

                  #9
                  CZ is notorious for having tighter chambers with shorter jumps to the rifling. I have to load my pistol rounds on the short side to work in my p09 and p07. Have had a few longer ones slip through and they can lock a slide up pretty tight. I would venture to say the same is for their rifle barrels.

                  Comment

                  • Clarence
                    Bloodstained
                    • Dec 2015
                    • 53

                    #10
                    I believe that the article in the various gun rags need to be examined very carefully. As one poster mentioned, one of the purposes seemed to be the promotion of a new off brand scope. Promotion of anything new seems to be one of the primary purposes of every gun mag these days; that's disappointing for Rifle and Handloader, which were formerly of higher quality.

                    I looked at the loads in a G&A Special AR edition earlier this year, and I was concerned that some of the loads presented there could possibly have pressures higher than most careful handloaders on this forum would feel comfortable with.

                    Clarence
                    Last edited by Clarence; 11-06-2017, 08:16 PM.

                    Comment

                    • LRRPF52
                      Super Moderator
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 8569

                      #11
                      Very few articles I've read in the gun magazines seem to be informed well even about the basics of the cartridge.

                      David Fortier's articles are solid, as he's tracked 6.5 Grendel from the start, and seems to have had something to do with naming it even.
                      NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                      CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                      6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                      www.AR15buildbox.com

                      Comment

                      • LRRPF52
                        Super Moderator
                        • Sep 2014
                        • 8569

                        #12
                        I just picked up the latest edition of Handloader as well to see what was going on with that article.

                        He used a lot of powders I would't have, with some that are common to 6.5 Grendel like H-322, AA2520, X-Terminator, TAC, CFE223.

                        Maybe this was more of a tiptoeing in the dark exercise without a lot of published data.

                        His factory loads are really slow though, or even for a 22" AR15. They're what I've been getting from 16" and 18" barrels for years, with tons of data collected across many barrels now, contrasted with what we've seen here.

                        With CFE223, he only went to 30.5gr under a Sierra 120gr Pro Hunter.

                        Hornady lists 31.7gr of CFE223 as max under a 129gr cup and core bullet in an AR15, so not sure what was happening there.

                        You can load a lot more CFE223 under a 120gr in a Grendel bolt gun and still be under 50ksi, like at least 1.5gr more.

                        My go-to hand load of 31.2gr of CFE under a much longer 123gr AMAX is still not even breaking 47,000psi, and I'm still getting faster speed with it from a 16" than this 22" CZ bolt gun?

                        The powders I and others would really like to have seen would have been 8208XBR, AR-Comp, higher CFE223 charge weights, and even LVR.

                        A 22" bolt gun will have no problem getting a 120gr over 2700fps.

                        A 20" Savage bolt gun will get a 129gr Hornady to 2650fps with CFE223.

                        The 100gr loads in the article are really anemic speed-wise, partly because of some of the powders used.

                        Under a 100gr, load 30.8gr Compressed of 8208XBR per Hodgdon's did 2732fps from a 24" barrel at 47,600psi.

                        I didn't even push to max with 8208XBR under the 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, and still saw 2675fps from a 16" barrel.

                        The fastest speed in the article with a 100gr out of a 22" bolt gun is 2565fps. I expect my 12" Grendel to do that.

                        I'm not even talking about max loads here either for the AR15.

                        I need to go chrono my Howa Mini with some of the ladders I've loaded. A 22" bolt gun should be screaming 120gr and 100gr, with at least 2500-2600fps with a 129gr or 130gr.
                        Last edited by LRRPF52; 11-18-2017, 12:16 AM.
                        NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                        CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                        6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                        www.AR15buildbox.com

                        Comment

                        • Bobke
                          Warrior
                          • Dec 2015
                          • 256

                          #13
                          Exactly as I read it. You would think that even a casual review of available data would have led him here, where there’s a wealth of resources to draw from. Unfortunately, that seems to be Handloader’s path of late, with only a handful of exceptions. Wish Waters was still around for a pass through Pet Loads process. We’d would have seen some legitimate results.

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