This looks like fun.

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  • Keef
    Warrior
    • Jun 2017
    • 296

    This looks like fun.

    I've been looking to do a course and finally found one close enough. Just wondering if I would need a 20moa scope mount to make it to 800yards. Scope is a Lupy VX6 3-18x. Rifle is 16" Grendel.



    Its a two day course taught by US Army/FBI/Special Reaction Team Sniper Chief Paul Smith.

    Here is a copy/paste from the site for people that don't want to follow the link.

  • bj139
    Chieftain
    • Mar 2017
    • 1968

    #2
    "Mil-Dot reticle or MOA reticle with external adjustable knobs for elevation and windage"

    Does your scope have target turrets? It sounds like a requirement even before worrying about a 20 MOA base.

    Explore the very best in riflescopes. Leupold delivers legendary performance and dependability hunters and shooters expect from a premium riflescope. Leupold riflescopes are guaranteed for life.


    I will try to find a similar course near where I live. Thanks.

    Comment

    • Keef
      Warrior
      • Jun 2017
      • 296

      #3
      Scope should be GTG adjustable turrets with a zero stop on the elevation dial.

      Here is a link to the scope, let me know what you think...the one in your link is not like mine.

      With a slightly smaller objective lens than its 50mm counterpart, the VX®-6HD 3-18x44mm can do it all, while packing a little less weight. Dial it down to 3x magnification to get enough field of view to navigate brush and timber or crank the power selector all the way up to 18x to dominate any backcountry landscape.

      Comment

      • bj139
        Chieftain
        • Mar 2017
        • 1968

        #4
        I only know what I've read about long range but here is my advice.
        If you have an Android phone download Strelok, a free ballistic program.
        It says you will need 54 MOA to get to 1000yds with a 123g .4BC bullet at 2400FPS.
        Your scope has 75 MOA adjustment so 37 up and 37 down.
        With a 20 MOA base you can get to 37 + 20 = 57 MOA so it will just make it.
        You would have some extra by using one of the lower dots on your mildot scope.

        I did find a course in Lewistown, PA, close enough for me to drive.

        I think LRRPF52 teaches a similar course. I am sure he will chime in.
        Last edited by bj139; 11-01-2017, 02:23 PM.

        Comment

        • LRRPF52
          Super Moderator
          • Sep 2014
          • 8569

          #5
          Biggest thing I've seen is that people with optics that aren't appropriate for long range struggle in a multi-day LR course.

          Same goes for ammo and rifle.

          It really does help to have a solid, repeatable target scope with target knobs, or a reticle with enough elevation and windage holds in a known format (usually Mils or MOA) to be able to repeatedly and predictably make hits at distance.

          People that have brought scopes that don't have some type of reticle appropriate for windage holds and the ability to compensate for elevation waste a lot of time trying to find a solution to the corrections, and miss the conditions.

          Which reticle do you have in your Leupold? There are 2 reticles they have available for that scope that are appropriate for LR courses.

          The Fire Dot duplex reticle is not one of them, and will make for 2 very frustrating days.

          The TMOA and Impact 29 MOA are the only ones I would consider, but I wouldn't use anything other than a Mk 6 if I had a choice of Leupolds.
          NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

          CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

          6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

          www.AR15buildbox.com

          Comment

          • Sticks
            Chieftain
            • Dec 2016
            • 1922

            #6
            341 feet ASL - Yeah, you are going to need the 20 MOA mount.
            Sticks

            Catchy sig line here.

            Comment

            • Kilco
              Chieftain
              • Jan 2016
              • 1201

              #7
              As a huge fan of the 16" Grendels, I can honestly say that unless your skills are honed you are gimping yourself right out of the gate with that rifle at that ASl.

              Do you have any other appropriate rifles for such a class?

              I have long range steel behind my house and practice regularly, and at 660ft ASL my 810 yard 12"x12" plate can be very challenging with my 16" Grendel in varying winds with handloads pushing the 123 eld-m 2460-2480.
              Last edited by Kilco; 11-02-2017, 04:06 PM.

              Comment

              • Keef
                Warrior
                • Jun 2017
                • 296

                #8
                Thanks for all the input guys. Looks like my scope isn't as good as I thought. My reality has been checked. Maybe I'll just do the carbine course they offer.

                Comment

                • Kilco
                  Chieftain
                  • Jan 2016
                  • 1201

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Keef View Post
                  Thanks for all the input guys. Looks like my scope isn't as good as I thought. My reality has been checked. Maybe I'll just do the carbine course they offer.
                  That is a phenominal scope for what it's made for. I love the Leupold scopes for hunting, and yours has awesome glass.

                  You can also stretch it out quite far with that scope, but for a class like that you would want something made for that discipline of shooting.

                  Comment

                  • StoneHendge
                    Chieftain
                    • May 2016
                    • 2009

                    #10
                    Keef, why don't you rent one of their rifles? Going through the course with the proper equipment would likely save you money in the long run because you would know exactly what it needs and takes if its something you want to pursue. It would also give you a chance to observe and talk to your classmates about their equipment
                    Let's go Brandon!

                    Comment

                    • Crews
                      Bloodstained
                      • Jul 2017
                      • 31

                      #11

                      Comment

                      • bj139
                        Chieftain
                        • Mar 2017
                        • 1968

                        #12
                        From Strelok, a free ballistics program for Android and iphone.

                        It's not really code but it seemed to format best when I did this.

                        Code:
                        
                        Slope angle, degrees: 0.0
                        
                        Cartridge: 6.5 grendel
                        
                        Bullet weight, grains: 123.0
                        
                        Bullet speed, f/s: 2550.0
                             at temperature, °F: 80.0
                             Temperature coefficient, %: 2.5
                        Ballistic coefficient (G1): 0.4
                        
                        	
                        
                        Rifle: overwatch 6.5 grendel
                        
                        Zero Distance, yards: 100.0
                        
                        Scope height, inches: 1.7
                        
                        Vert. click, MRAD: 0.1 (0.34 MOA)
                        
                        Hor. click, MRAD: 0.1 (0.34 MOA)
                        
                        Zeroing weather. Disabled
                        	
                        
                        Weather
                        
                        Altitude, feet: 328.0
                        
                        Temperature, °F: 80.0
                        
                        Pressure, inHg: 29.53
                        
                        Wind speed, mph: 10.0
                        
                        Wind direction, degrees: 90.0
                        
                        Distance, yards 	Bullet speed, f/s 	Vert. correction, MOA 	Vert. correction, MRAD 	Hor. correction, MOA 	Hor. correction, MRAD
                        0.0 	2552.5 	0.00 	0.0 	0.0 	0.00
                        50.0 	2448.8 	0.24 	0.1 	0.4 	0.12
                        100.0 	2350.1 	0.00 	0.0 	0.8 	0.24
                        150.0 	2253.9 	0.92 	0.3 	1.3 	0.37
                        200.0 	2160.1 	2.20 	0.6 	1.7 	0.50
                        250.0 	2068.9 	3.68 	1.1 	2.2 	0.64
                        300.0 	1980.3 	5.31 	1.5 	2.7 	0.78
                        350.0 	1894.0 	7.08 	2.1 	3.2 	0.93
                        400.0 	1810.0 	8.99 	2.6 	3.7 	1.09
                        450.0 	1728.7 	11.03 	3.2 	4.3 	1.25
                        500.0 	1649.6 	13.23 	3.8 	4.9 	1.42
                        550.0 	1572.5 	15.58 	4.5 	5.5 	1.60
                        600.0 	1498.0 	18.09 	5.3 	6.1 	1.78
                        650.0 	1425.9 	20.79 	6.1 	6.8 	1.98
                        700.0 	1356.0 	23.69 	6.9 	7.5 	2.18
                        750.0 	1288.1 	26.80 	7.8 	8.2 	2.40
                        800.0 	1222.4 	30.15 	8.8 	9.0 	2.62
                        850.0 	1158.8 	33.76 	9.8 	9.8 	2.86
                        900.0 	1097.4 	37.66 	10.9 	10.6 	3.08
                        950.0 	1038.1 	41.87 	12.2 	11.5 	3.34
                        1000.0 	981.0 	46.44 	13.5 	12.4 	3.61

                        Comment

                        • HowaGrendel
                          Bloodstained
                          • Sep 2017
                          • 99

                          #13
                          Originally posted by bj139 View Post
                          I only know what I've read about long range but here is my advice.
                          If you have an Android phone download Strelok, a free ballistic program.
                          It says you will need 54 MOA to get to 1000yds with a 123g .4BC bullet at 2400FPS.
                          Your scope has 75 MOA adjustment so 37 up and 37 down.
                          With a 20 MOA base you can get to 37 + 20 = 57 MOA so it will just make it.
                          You would have some extra by using one of the lower dots on your mildot scope.

                          I did find a course in Lewistown, PA, close enough for me to drive.

                          I think LRRPF52 teaches a similar course. I am sure he will chime in.
                          very few scopes will zero at the middle of elevation adjustment.....he may have 30 or he may have 40....after zeroing the only way to know for sure how much elevation you have left is to click scope to where it stops and count the actual elevation.....that way you know whether or not you will need a canted rail...

                          Comment

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