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Thread: Why Oh WHy

  1. #1
    Warrior
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    Why Oh WHy

    Why is it that when our military looks for a new cartridge or system, they never start with a blank slate? How can anything optimal be found when the basis has ties to the days of black powder?

  2. #2
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  3. #3
    Chieftain stanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howl View Post
    Why is it that when our military looks for a new cartridge or system, they never start with a blank slate? How can anything optimal be found when the basis has ties to the days of black powder?
    1. Depends upon what you mean by "blank slate."
    2. Any projectile launcher using solid propellant will have "ties" to the days of black powder.
    If at first you don't succeed, give up.
    Anything that can't be done easily, probably isn't worth doing.

  4. #4
    Chieftain sneaky one's Avatar
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    Why look that far backward, when the modern 6.5 is right here ? I let go of the past- long ago. 1990. Modern 6.5 was the .260 in mid 1990's.

    Grr showed up in 2004. Creed showed up in 2011- nothing better than a .260...- Ask L52, he uses that.260 round for competitions around the globe .
    Last edited by sneaky one; 11-11-2017 at 03:05 AM.

  5. #5
    Warrior IceAxe's Avatar
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    Not to say there isn't bias, but typically they start with an Operational Requirements Document or an ORD. All development is directly tied to that document. It sets any parameters or specifications for development.

  6. #6
    Bloodstained
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    Logistics.

    Legacy ammunition on hand, weapon training, existing troops trained on legacy weapons, a new weapon requires retraining and development of new training. Procurement, stocking and distribution of ammunition and spare parts for two weapons systems.

    These factors also make something like improved ammunition for existing weapons look more attractive than replacing an entire weapon system, including ammunition.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator LRRPF52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAxe View Post
    Not to say there isn't bias, but typically they start with an Operational Requirements Document or an ORD. All development is directly tied to that document. It sets any parameters or specifications for development.
    ^^^^^^ There are aspects to military weapons development and procurement that are far more involved than most people will ever know.

    At the end of the day, much of it can be personality-driven and either go south or really well, depending on what groups of people end up working together on a project and what types of vendors respond to the solicitation.
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  8. #8
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    It seems when a military has started with a blank slate, looking at various possible calibers or all of them, they end up at 6mm +/-. Sweden got 6.5mm at the beginning of the smokeless era. China more recently got...5.7mm I think?

  9. #9
    Chieftain stanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howl View Post
    It seems when a military has started with a blank slate, looking at various possible calibers or all of them, they end up at 6mm +/-. Sweden got 6.5mm at the beginning of the smokeless era. China more recently got...5.7mm I think?
    5.8mm.



    FYI: In the 1890s, the US Navy started with a "blank slate" and created the 6mm USN round, for use in rifles and machine guns.



    In the 1970s, the US Army started with a "blank slate" and created the 6mm SAW round, for use in a squad automatic weapon.

    If at first you don't succeed, give up.
    Anything that can't be done easily, probably isn't worth doing.

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