OCW, Ladder Loads, Accuracy Nodes with Velocity...Blew a fuse.

[Sticks]

... Find out what the majority of the competitors in the sport are shooting and start with that load. Most likely it will be in the high end of the velocity scale for the cartridge. Probably not maxing out but around 90% of maxing out. Load five, five more a grain less and five more a grain heavier in powder. Print on paper at 200 and figure out which one shot the best. Load twenty and shoot a course of fire in your sport. They will probably perform well enough for you to win with providing you are a good marksman.

LR55

As far as I know, I am the only consistent gas gun shooter, and the only 6.5 Grendel. Nobody to get spoon fed from.

However, I will keep on trying.

It looks like the load you are already using is the best among these 3 powders.
Are you going to try XBR-8208?

I really want to get this 2230 to work. I would rather not buy another pound of powder to sit and stare at me. I am just dumbfounded that I can not get a node to show with the two AA powders using good brass and primers, when I get textbook nodes using Wolf Steel case pull downs and their own powder back in.

I have gone as far as to sort cases by weight (115gr, 116gr is 95%, toss the rest into the lost brass bag), and am going to do another run, different scale (goes to .02 gr.) and see if I had some bad powder weighs for at least a smaller SD.

Same data I got. Yup, I am running max load on 2230, getting better velocity than their test barrel that is longer, and no pressure signs... not saying that I am unconcerned with that. I take their numbers seriously and not all that willing to push past it. Forgot - CCI BR primers is what I am using. Editing the OP.

If you guys are discussing what I THINK you're discussing, you cannot find the OBT sweet spot for a powder and then tune a load with a different powder to the same velocity and expect the same results. Barrel time with two different powders will be different even with the velocities perfectly matched. The pressure curves will differ enough to result in significantly different barrel times.

I know that I can not match the Factory ELD load. I can however get something that is close (+/- 35fps and equal or better accuracy/consistency). Who would have thought I could take 5 wolf steel case bullets, put 28.2 grains of their own powder back in with a Hornady 123ELD on top and shoot a .3 MOA 5 round group? That was the node at the low end of the velocity curve.

[grayfox]

Sticks,
2450 with cfe... what's your barrel length? my guess is 16", maybe?
could be that 2230 is a mite fast for the 123's... but Western powders has some load data...

[Sticks]

Sticks,
2450 with cfe... what's your barrel length? my guess is 16", maybe?
could be that 2230 is a mite fast for the 123's... but Western powders has some load data...

18" Barlitien upper from PF.

[grayfox]

I looked at your numbers again.
Assuming those are actual velocities not just book numbers, you may be closer than you think...
Might only need to play with overall cartridge length...

So, from the 2230 results (assuming the actual V=2472), maybe try 27.5/ est 2480 ... caveat it's 0.1 over book.
for the 2520 results, from the 29.3 and 29.6 data try 29.4 or .5 and adjust the coal by 0.010's, this also might be in a node for you.
and the cfe data, the 2480/ 30.8 is real close to what I get, again try adjusting coal by 0.010's.

I've been using 2.260 for my 123 hornady's.

Tweaking the coal slightly alters the jump timing and is a kind of "fine-tune" for group size, once I find an SD that looks promising.

Final thought, you are up at altitude in CO, right? and temp at which you're shooting is? These of course will change the V what you see vs what I see at 320 elev here in VA.

Just a thought, maybe it will help you.

[Sticks]

grafox - Those numbers in the OP are actual velocities taken by my Magnetospeed, temps that day were low 70's at 4600 ASL. Ammo and ambient temps were the same - I try to keep that a constant.

My COAL is 2.265+/- .002 on all my loads right now. After my Moscow Match Redux today - I am going to start logging seating by the ogive (I had some loads - 100gr, 120gr - that may have jammed in the lands today if I had left them at mag length so I reset everything to the same as my ELD loads of 1.688").

[StoneHendge]

I would back off on the COAL. If I recall, Black is 2.245. If Black shoots reasonably well for you, run the ladders at that length and then you can find the "node" and play with seating depth from there. You might also want to double check your neck tension since it seems you might be close to your lands. With Hornady brass and bullets and some of the lot to lot variance I've seen, what you measures yesterday may not be what you measure tomorrow. i personally avoid Hornady for that reason, notwithstanding the shiniest marketing materials in the industry

I would also shoot at 100 yards to eliminate environmentals / wind gusts. Looking at my 18"er 123 Scenar load, 100 yd drift in 10 mph is 0.3" while 200 yds drift is 1.1". It's a gusty time of year.

Footnote - I'm not a big "node" guy. I have pet loads that "node-ies" would have walked right past.

[grayfox]

ok. Hornady loads them down to 2.245 or so (coal not BTO)... anyways with SD's in single digits that's what I look for as promising node-loads.
Keep pluggin' away you'll find them.

[Arkhangel5]

Sticks,
I am going to pass on a saying I have heard in one way or another over the years in competition.

You have to take what the rifle gives you. Your rifle might just not like that particular set of components you have listed. I am referring the 2230 combo you hope works.

How much you are willing to tweak and tweak is up to you. Only you can decide how much time and components you wish to test to get the result you require.

That said, I will second what Stonehenge said, try tweaking the seating depth.

For my match AR's, functionality comes before accuracy or speed, and in that order.

The same applies to my Grendel, which holds sub moa out to 600yds. My Grendel ammo is loaded to ~2.25 oal to ensure reliable feeding. MV is 2465fps for a 123ELD out of an 18in barrel.

Hope that helps.

SY

[Sticks]

Thanks for all the replies.

I got beat up a little with the Moscow Match Redux, and my .2 grain OCW around the AA powders max load revealed nothing - plus I was having a really bad day of shooting and getting a consistent final firing position. Suffering from Stonehendge syndrome on that 4th & 5th shot.

I am going to take my jump/seating depth and start playing with it at my initial SD low spots for each powder and try again. Weather permitting, I'll take it out to 300ish and try to print some groups.

[Boostmeister]

Sticks, just a suggestion. If you exhaust your efforts and want to try something, see if you can find/borrow another chronograph. At one point I had tried a Magnetospeed during OCW testing and was seeing some results that had me going in circles. I repeated my testing using an Oehler 35P chronograph and was able to zero in on a load. We are dealing with barrel harmonics that vary with things like bullet weight, powder load, barrel length, free float handguards (and a host of others). Hanging a chronograph off the end of the barrel can have an impact on the barrel harmonics, and thus your results. Not throwing sticks (no pun intended) at the Magnetospeed product, just saying that it is another possible variable in your testing.

[StoneHendge]

lol - I'm glad to see my marksmanship is infamous. Next thing you know Rob Schneider will be in the peanut gallery while Adam Sandler sets up for an important shot yelling "You can do it! Don't Stonehendge it!"

[Sticks]

Good to see we are all throwing each others name under the bus.



No POI shift or harmonics impact with this. I do have another chrono at home I can set up to see if my Magnetospeed is tweaking things or giving me false readings.

[lrgrendel]

20171115_205010-1238x696.jpg

[Kswhitetails]

You might try this method. Might be a bit complicated, time consuming and a little more costly, but it WORKS.

(Deleted to save paper)

From there I will go up and down 0.3 gr increments from each node and shoot 5 shot groups with out my Magnetospeed.

300 yds is best.
Seating depth after that and you are done....

The photo is just an example I have...[ATTACH=CONFIG]10184[/ATTACH]

[davidj]

This is a wonderful thread. Thanks to all who contributed.