Motivated Moscow Match Redux

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  • Randy99CL
    Warrior
    • Oct 2017
    • 562

    #16
    Yes, you guys are right.
    I handloaded back in the '80s but wasn't in a position where I could shoot very much and eventually sold the equipment. There have been decades when I rarely pulled a trigger. But since I retired and moved to NM I can shoot everything (including the shotgun sports) pretty much every day. And the shooting sports are my only hobby (more like an obsession).

    Yes, I know you don't usually save any money by reloading. You spend as much or more but it allows you to shoot a lot more and get a lot better. And handloading is a hobby in itself; chasing that perfect load for each of your firearms is fun and worth the effort. There is a lot of satisfaction in a good group on target or quick kill in the field with ammo you loaded yourself.

    But if you start early enough, and shoot enough, you can eventually save enough to pay off the equipment. Depends on how much and what you shoot but look at those who compete and fire thousands of rounds a month.
    But someone who only hunts or shoots casually probably won't ever make it worthwhile.

    And BTW, I originally started because in the late '70s I bought a .220 Swift and the only factory ammo was Norma (big bucks).
    Last edited by Randy99CL; 12-02-2017, 04:30 AM.
    "In any war, political or battlefield; truth is the first casualty."

    Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

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    • Kswhitetails
      Chieftain
      • Oct 2016
      • 1914

      #17
      Originally posted by Randy99CL View Post
      And handloading is a hobby in itself; chasing that perfect load for each of your firearms is fun and worth the effort. There is a lot of satisfaction is a good group on target or quick kill in the field with ammo you loaded yourself.
      Very well said. I am still so new I have no idea what I'm actually doing. I like to think I do... I'm sure that will never change... Anyhow, your sentiments here mirror my reloading adventure to a T. Glad to read you typing out my thoughts on some online message board. Makes me very self aware...

      KS
      Nothing kills the incentive of men faster than a healthy sense of entitlement. Nothing kills entitlement faster than a healthy sense of achievement.

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      • Randy99CL
        Warrior
        • Oct 2017
        • 562

        #18
        If you haven't started buying the equipment yet and am not sure exactly what is involved there are a couple of video series for beginners that are great. I like Johnny's Reloading Bench: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ7...CQnRp9LXXxinJQ
        and Iraq Veteran 8888: https://www.youtube.com/user/Iraqveteran8888

        Look down the lists, they both have good "Beginning Reloading" videos.
        "In any war, political or battlefield; truth is the first casualty."

        Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

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        • ItsRainingLead
          Unwashed
          • Nov 2017
          • 18

          #19
          I've watched a lot of those videos and have a good concept of the process for loading fresh but I don't have much idea on what steps are needed for replacing the pills on Wolf steel. This is really pertinent to me since I have a lot of Wolf steel.

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          • Sticks
            Chieftain
            • Dec 2016
            • 1922

            #20
            Trying to reprime a Wolf case is not worth the effort (and mess since the hydraulic method works best) IMO. It can be done, but that is a spooky amount of labor for a single case, let alone hundreds or thousands.
            Sticks

            Catchy sig line here.

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            • Randy99CL
              Warrior
              • Oct 2017
              • 562

              #21
              Originally posted by ItsRainingLead View Post
              I've watched a lot of those videos and have a good concept of the process for loading fresh but I don't have much idea on what steps are needed for replacing the pills on Wolf steel. This is really pertinent to me since I have a lot of Wolf steel.
              It depends on exactly what you are trying to do. Do you want to just reload the unfired cases? Then pull the bullet and dump the powder. But the case capacity and primer are unknowns so you have to start with reduced loads and work up.

              If you're just starting to handload it's better to just start from scratch with new components and follow all the directions exactly. Down the road you can mess with the Wolf.

              Edit: The problem with this idea is that we have no idea how much another person knows. Having experience allows us to take things for granted that another person hasn't come across yet and doesn't know.

              The whole thing that makes reloading safe is knowing exactly what each component is going to do. Changing any part of a recipe could be dangerous until we test at a reduced level and see the outcome.

              Reloading with Wolf introduces two unknowns: the case and the primer. Having a lot of experience many here know how to safely work up loads using these components but a novice first needs to learn how to reload safely and consistently with the exact directions from the manuals.
              Last edited by Randy99CL; 12-04-2017, 12:17 AM.
              "In any war, political or battlefield; truth is the first casualty."

              Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

              Comment

              • bj139
                Chieftain
                • Mar 2017
                • 1968

                #22
                Originally posted by Randy99CL View Post
                You have to 1. Pull the bullet
                2. Collect the powder in a container Measure the powder charge from many to get the average.
                3. Run the expander into the case to expand the neck. Probably a good idea to remove the decapping pin just in case.
                4. Recharge case with powder
                5. Seat new bullet with press Crimp case if necessary.

                If you blow your face off you didn't hear how from me...
                You don't have to remove the decapping pin since the cases are Berdan primed and the pin will break before anything worse happens.
                Don't ask me how I know.

                3.5 Inside chamfer neck to reduce bullet scraping.

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                • Randy99CL
                  Warrior
                  • Oct 2017
                  • 562

                  #23
                  Originally posted by bj139 View Post
                  You don't have to remove the decapping pin since the cases are Berdan primed and the pin will break before anything worse happens.
                  Don't ask me how I know.

                  3.5 Inside chamfer neck to reduce bullet scraping.
                  I changed this post because (after further consideration) I would rather see someone who is totally new to reloading not try this at all. Not until more experienced.

                  But I would take the decapping pin off so I wouldn't accidentally run it too far into the case and break it off.
                  Last edited by Randy99CL; 12-04-2017, 12:19 AM.
                  "In any war, political or battlefield; truth is the first casualty."

                  Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

                  Comment

                  • ItsRainingLead
                    Unwashed
                    • Nov 2017
                    • 18

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Randy99CL View Post
                    It depends on exactly what you are trying to do. Do you want to just reload the unfired cases? Then pull the bullet and dump the powder. But the case capacity and primer are unknowns so you have to start with reduced loads and work up.

                    If you're just starting to handload it's better to just start from scratch with new components and follow all the directions exactly. Down the road you can mess with the Wolf.

                    Edit: The problem with this idea is that we have no idea how much another person knows. Having experience allows us to take things for granted that another person hasn't come across yet and doesn't know.

                    The whole thing that makes reloading safe is knowing exactly what each component is going to do. Changing any part of a recipe could be dangerous until we test at a reduced level and see the outcome.

                    Reloading with Wolf introduces two unknowns: the case and the primer. Having a lot of experience many here know how to safely work up loads using these components but a novice first needs to learn how to reload safely and consistently with the exact directions from the manuals.
                    I'm wanting to use the Wolf steel case and primer, and load my own powder and bullets. This is primarily for hunting where I don't want to worry about lost brass. I may just stick with brass.

                    Comment

                    • Sticks
                      Chieftain
                      • Dec 2016
                      • 1922

                      #25
                      Originally posted by ItsRainingLead View Post
                      I'm wanting to use the Wolf steel case and primer, and load my own powder and bullets. This is primarily for hunting where I don't want to worry about lost brass. I may just stick with brass.
                      Nothing wrong with the wolf powder, I'd reuse it. Pick what ever projectile you want to use and do a proper load work up if going higher than 100gr.
                      Sticks

                      Catchy sig line here.

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                      • pajasonc
                        Warrior
                        • Dec 2016
                        • 203

                        #26
                        I have thought about pulling the wolf bullet and loading a nosler 100 btip. Anyone see any issues with just using the powder thats in the case or could the btip cause to much pressure?

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                        • bj139
                          Chieftain
                          • Mar 2017
                          • 1968

                          #27
                          Originally posted by pajasonc View Post
                          I have thought about pulling the wolf bullet and loading a nosler 100 btip. Anyone see any issues with just using the powder thats in the case or could the btip cause to much pressure?
                          I have loaded 85gr flat base Sierras after pulling the Wolf bullet. It worked fine.

                          There are two factors when considering if there might be an overload, bullet weight and friction against the barrel.

                          An educated guess would say bullet weight is much more important.

                          If you go the same or lower weight you should be fine as long as the bullet diameter fits the barrel.

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                          • Sticks
                            Chieftain
                            • Dec 2016
                            • 1922

                            #28
                            Same seating depth at a minimum, if you can measure to the ogive and make sure you are not jamming them into the lands, you may be able to go longer.

                            Fire one and inspect. Best if you have a Chrono to match velocities for any pressure warnings.
                            Sticks

                            Catchy sig line here.

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                            • biodsl
                              Chieftain
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 1714

                              #29
                              I took another batch of Moscow Match to the range yesterday. This time, the 107 SMK. During my last outing, I wasn't happy with the extreme spreads I was getting. I wondered if this might be a result of inconsistent chamfering of the case needed to fit a .264 inch bullet into a .262 hole. I purchased a Sinclair die and .263 expander mandrel. I think this helped to a small degree. It's certainly easier than chamfering.

                              Alexander Arms 16" Lite
                              - Wolf Semi-Steel 107gr Sierra SMK (29.0grs Wolf powder @2.27). Temp: 43 degrees
                              AV 2556 HI 2567 LO 2546 SD 8 ES 21
                              2563, 2550, 2567, 2546, 2556

                              Three groups were at about an inch which is what I'm starting to believe is all this shooter can do. Group four rewarded me at .6 inches. I'm thinking of bumping the load .2 or .4 grains to see what happens.

                              107SMK_MM.jpg
                              Paul Peloquin

                              Did government credibility die of Covid or with Covid?

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                              • Sticks
                                Chieftain
                                • Dec 2016
                                • 1922

                                #30
                                Nice. Thank you for posting. Did you measure the case mouth after the mandrel? Notice a difference while sizing?

                                Did you get a baseline speed on the wolf OEM ammo?

                                I'm done, unless I decide to pull all the ELDs out. I settled on 27.4 gr. My Howa loves them. Ragged 5 shot hole.
                                Sticks

                                Catchy sig line here.

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