Lehigh Defense 110gr Controlled Chaos

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  • rickOshay
    Warrior
    • Apr 2012
    • 784

    Lehigh Defense 110gr Controlled Chaos



    The latest offering from Lehigh has arrived - thank you Dave and Justin.

    From Lehigh Defense Website
    Length: 1.225
    G1 Coefficient: 0.405
    Twist Rate: 1:9
    Minimum velocity: 1500 fps

    Price: $31.86/100 ($0.32 ea) Introductory sale price at MidWay USA

    They have published "theoretical" load data for popular Grendel powders such as AA2520, H335, Tac and 8208. An 18" barrel is expected to achieve up to 2800 fps using 8208. They also list a COAL of 2.245" in their chamber.

    Lehigh also gives a very large velocity range of 1,500 to 4,200 fps for this LFP.

    I've added this one to the LFP Summary thread, and I hope to get these into gels after Thanksgiving.
  • lrgrendel
    Warrior
    • Jul 2013
    • 662

    #2
    Any idea what the 2 smaller groves are for?

    Comment

    • rickOshay
      Warrior
      • Apr 2012
      • 784

      #3
      My understanding is that the two grooves at the base of to reduce surface area and the deep groove above is to induce fragmentation.

      The top groove is too narrow to be able to measure, but you can see from the group photo in the Summary thread that its quite deep.
      Last edited by rickOshay; 11-18-2017, 06:57 PM.

      Comment

      • grayfox
        Chieftain
        • Jan 2017
        • 4295

        #4
        Originally posted by rickOshay View Post


        The latest offering from Lehigh has arrived - thank you Dave and Justin.

        From Lehigh Defense Website
        Length: 1.225
        G1 Coefficient: 0.405
        Twist Rate: 1:9
        Minimum velocity: 1500 fps

        Price: $31.86/100 ($0.32 ea) Introductory sale price at MidWay USA

        They have published "theoretical" load data for popular Grendel powders such as AA2520, H335, Tac and 8208. An 18" barrel is expected to achieve up to 2800 fps using 8208. They also list a COAL of 2.245" in their chamber.

        Lehigh also gives a very large velocity range of 1,500 to 4,200 fps for this LFP.

        I've added this one to the LFP Summary thread, and I hope to get these into gels after Thanksgiving.
        Any opinions on how to treat the theoretical load data? I've not seen someone put out theoreticals before... At $32/100 I might spring for a box to see how they do.
        Also, do you think these will be finicky like I've read the BArnes' are (don't shoot well unless the barrel is all cleaned out from other type bullets...)
        Thanks.
        "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

        Comment

        • rickOshay
          Warrior
          • Apr 2012
          • 784

          #5
          Originally posted by grayfox View Post
          Any opinions on how to treat the theoretical load data? I've not seen someone put out theoreticals before... At $32/100 I might spring for a box to see how they do.
          Also, do you think these will be finicky like I've read the BArnes' are (don't shoot well unless the barrel is all cleaned out from other type bullets...)
          Thanks.

          It’s likely data generated by Quickload or similar software. As with all software-generated loads - treat them VERY carefully!!

          Comment

          • Bigs28
            Chieftain
            • Feb 2016
            • 1786

            #6
            I have 2 boxes incoming. I don't see ar comp on there. Would you not use that powder?

            Comment

            • LRRPF52
              Super Moderator
              • Sep 2014
              • 8569

              #7
              I would try:

              CFE223 working up from 29.5gr to 33.0gr over a chrono in .3gr increments

              8208XBR working up from 28.0gr to 30.0gr

              H-335 working up from 28.0gr to 30.2gr

              If we see .3gr increments yielding an average of closer to 50fps per increase, then it's building start pressure pretty fast. A more ideal start pressure increment would be around 25fps, otherwise it will be inclined to spike.

              I think 2800fps from an 18" is pretty optimistic, although the separation groove should help reduce start pressure. Of all the tested data with 100gr Barnes solids from 24" barrels, nothing broke 2800fps, but got into the high 2700fps range with AA2520 and H-335. CFE223 does what AA2520 always wished it could do, so that's the powder I predict will generate the most velocity. Since this bullet is supposed to expand down to 1500fps and has a rather high BC for a 110gr compared to every other 110gr above a 6mm, it will have plenty of hunting performance, so you can lean on accuracy over speed if you want.

              2630-2730fps with a 110gr solid using 8208 XBR or CFE223 is what I'm expecting from an 18" barrel for max loads.

              2775-2825fps is doable from a 22" barrel.

              At 2700fps mv, that gives you expansion to 625yds / 558 ft-lbs

              At 2600fps, you get 575yds (1519fps) / 563 ft-lbs

              At 2500fps...525yds 1525 /568

              At 2400fps...475yds 1529 / 571

              I'll get some of these. 1500fps expansion will be perfect for the SBR/Pistol Grendels as well.

              Example, from a 12.5" Grendel pushing 2400fps mv:

              175yds 2049fps 1026ft-lbs
              200yds 2002fps 979 ft-lbs
              300yds 1819fps 808 ft-lbs

              Will make an excellent, affordable hunting load that is also low-recoil. It has about twice the expansion range most people will ever need.
              NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

              CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

              6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

              www.AR15buildbox.com

              Comment

              • Bigs28
                Chieftain
                • Feb 2016
                • 1786

                #8
                Thanks, i will load some up with cfe this week.

                Comment

                • LRRPF52
                  Super Moderator
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 8569

                  #9
                  Mine are on the way.
                  NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                  CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                  6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                  www.AR15buildbox.com

                  Comment

                  • grayfox
                    Chieftain
                    • Jan 2017
                    • 4295

                    #10
                    Ok, I'm in, I'll try a box and see how it goes.

                    '52 as usual great info.
                    "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

                    Comment

                    • Texkitch
                      Bloodstained
                      • Jan 2017
                      • 39

                      #11
                      Pretty much followed ‘52’s recommendation for XBR and CFE. Not overly impressed with accuracy as several groups 2+ inches at 100 yds. However, found a few sub moa nodes worth more shots. CFE more accurate than XBR. Used 3 shot groups to get initial data using Magnetospeed.

                      75F, near sea level Texas
                      16” AA barrel
                      Hornady brass, CCI 450 2.230 COAL

                      110 gn. Lehigh Controlled chaos

                      XBR Avg Sd Spread
                      28.5 URUR 2483 2517 2483 2494 20 34
                      28.8 URLR 2498 2535 2518 2517 19 37
                      29.1 URM 2553 2543 2522 2539 16 31
                      29.4 URUL 2559 ERR 2528 2544 22 31
                      29.7 URLL 2574 2572 2574 2573 1 2
                      30.0 LRM 2606 2602 2596 2601 5 10 Sub moa

                      CFE
                      29.5 LRLR 2391 2404 2363 2386 21 41 Sub moa
                      29.8 LRLL 2389 2415 2422 2409 17 33
                      30.1 LRUL 2444 2428 2471 2448 22 43
                      30.4 ULM 2503 2442 2442 2462 35 61
                      30.7 ULUR 2495 2500 2496 2497 3 5
                      31.0 ULLR 2522 2551 2544 2539 15 29
                      31.3 ULLL 2565 2529 2532 2542 20 36 Sub moa
                      31.6 LLM 26222605 2566 2598 29 56
                      31.9 ULUL 2665 2568 ERR 2617 69 97
                      32.2 LLUR 2603 2605 2617 2608 8 14
                      32.5 LLLR 2643 2619 2628 2630 12 24 Sub moa
                      32.8 LLUL 2674 2658 2696 2676 19 38

                      Added target picture. URUR is upper right target upper right bull, etc.....
                      LRUR is a test with known good load with 123 gn Custom comps.

                      110CChaos.pdf
                      Last edited by Texkitch; 01-28-2018, 01:48 PM. Reason: Added target picture.

                      Comment

                      • Bigs28
                        Chieftain
                        • Feb 2016
                        • 1786

                        #12
                        Any pressure signs when you got up there?

                        Comment

                        • Texkitch
                          Bloodstained
                          • Jan 2017
                          • 39

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Bigs28 View Post
                          Any pressure signs when you got up there?
                          Yes, light extractor mark on 2 of the 3 at the highest 32.8 CFE. I hadn’t loaded any higher because it was pretty compressed. Nothing more significant.

                          Comment

                          • sneaky one
                            Chieftain
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 3077

                            #14
                            Late to the game here- I was sent a box to test.

                            These are really nice. These mimic the 105 Gmx that I sent to RicSmall years back. Same OAL length of copper bullet.

                            For a safe start point--- I sent my data as soft loads for the 105 GMX -32.2 CFE.. All was fine to long ranges that he tried them. Deer down @ 327 yds.

                            That pill was designed after the Old Barnes 110 Brass solid---- Check AA 6.5 Grrr data -old data , mostly Tac, 2520, - . It's all good for these pills! H 335,

                            and a few more will work fine. ALWAYS START 1 GRAIN -AT LEAST , lower for your own safety. Any questions, comments are all welcomed here.


                            I have done a many of this - with no published chart. I made my own data charts - it's not that hard to do., Many here to help.

                            I'm staring at a pill that fell out of the box right now, -- I think it can be tweaked to 102... Hmmmmm


                            We'll see whut is up asap.

                            I have a lot of trials with the GMX, -it is a harder alloy than copper, yet less than brass alone as a pill. Brass fractures more than it bends. Copper is kinda soft...
                            Last edited by sneaky one; 11-26-2017, 01:01 AM.

                            Comment

                            • rickOshay
                              Warrior
                              • Apr 2012
                              • 784

                              #15
                              Gel Results

                              Here are the initial gel results for the 110gr Controlled Chaos.

                              Image below shows commercial SST on the left hitting get at 2538 fps. The Controlled Chaos is on the right impacting at 1976 fps.


                              I overestimated the amount of powder to charge these to get speeds down to my target of 1800 fps. Looks like I'll have to repeat to go lower.


                              More details will be posted on the LFP Summary Thread

                              Looks like this round lives up to its name: "Chaos".

                              Comment

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