Decent BUIS for less money?

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  • Frontier Gear
    Warrior
    • Nov 2017
    • 772

    Decent BUIS for less money?

    Read this in another thread and didn't want to hijack it. I thought that we could possibly post some decent sights that people have found to help save others from buying junk.

    BUIS are often overpriced, oversized and prone to failure. $20-80 for a set of BIUS makes for pretty marginal sights. Most of the budget BUIS that I have found are all the same made in China models sold by different distributors with a high markup. Wholesale on many of these are $10-$20.


    Ones that look like this often retail for $80 but cost about $24 wholesale and are pretty much junk as described above by zcostilla.
    ar-15-spring-assisted-low-profile-flip-up-sight-set-a36567-500x500.jpg

    I got these off of Amazon for about $25 and they were a waste of money. After a week of bouncing around in the Jeep, the buttons stick and so the sight won't stay folded down.

    2017-11-24 22_58_38-Amazon.com _ Ozark Armament 45 Degree Offset Flip Up Backup Sights - Picatin.png

    BCA offers a pretty decent pair for about $40 retail. The ones that I tried at least stayed put when you were shooting and they didn't break after a week of riding around in the jeep. You can find them for less if you look around.
    This page displays when the page cannot be found, the link is broken, or the page has been moved.

    flipsightside.jpg

    My current preference is the Griffin Armament M2 sights. They are made out of steel and are much slimmer than others. They work well and have a cool mounting system but are way more than $25. Retail is like $175.
    Griffin Armament is proud to introduce affordable Micro Modular Sights (M2) compatible with Picatinny rail systems. Griffin M2 sights offer an industry first, patent pending, modular base plate system. Constructed from QPQ Treated 17-4 and ordnance grade steel, Griffin M2 Sights were designed to be the correct product for every backup sight application.  A shooter can use these durable, low profile sights in a 12 o'clock mounted application while having the flexibility to reconfigure them to ambidextrous 45 degree angle sights using the alternate and available  angle plates. This flexibility ensures these sights can be used by anyone and will never end up in a box of undesirable legacy kit. The full M2 deployment kit includes the front and rear sight assemblies as well as both vertical and angled bases for a complete modular system. However, sights and bases are available separately for users who wish to buy parts as needed. The front A2 sight provides elevation adjustment while ensuring maximum aftermarket support for your favorite post, be it tritium, fiber optic, match grade, or otherwise. An extremely low profile, snag resistant, slotted rear windage screw, affords easy but more importantly secure adjustability.  Robust spring tension of both front and rear flip up assemblies ensures accurate repeatability every time the sight towers are actuated.  Never before has a product in this category offer this degree of flexibility. Griffin M2 Sights have a minimal foot print, and are among the smallest backup sights on the market. For a mere 2 and half ounces your rifle can be equipped with a durable iron sight system, to provide aiming capability in rain, snow, or fog, on or off axis without dependence on batteries or glass.  Features: 17-4 stainless steel Melonite QPQ treated Angle plates and 12 o'clock plates included Fasteners included A2 sight post compatible  

    2017-11-24 22_56_41-Griffin Armament M2 Sight Deployment Kit.png

    What have you guys found that works well and doesn't break the bank? I use them for hunting in case my scope fogs up. For my next Grendel build, I'd love to find a pair like the Griffin sights, but for less money.
    Engineer, FFL and Pastor
  • zcostilla
    Warrior
    • Aug 2017
    • 110

    #2
    Hey, great idea for a thread! Wish I had thought of it. I bought him the red dot I mentioned as an early Christmas gift because I took someone’s recommendation on that cheap Amazon BUIS set and felt bad. We built his AR for his 18th birthday and I talked him into buying junk. I’ll look into the BCA set, unless someone has a better recommendation.
    -Zac

    Husband, Father, Veteran. Grateful for my redemption.

    Comment

    • Sticks
      Chieftain
      • Dec 2016
      • 1922

      #3
      I really't don't expect much from Backup Iron Sights. They are back up, not primary.

      If I was to shoot nothing but irons on a rifle, then they will be fixed, not folding. Fortunately I am blind in that regard and honestly have never been able to shoot irons. If my primary optic fails, then I am point shooting and going by instinct.
      Sticks

      Catchy sig line here.

      Comment

      • LR1955
        Super Moderator
        • Mar 2011
        • 3355

        #4
        One thing to add. Do be sure the front and or rear sight are tall enough to zero!

        Some of the BUIS can be had with differing front sight heights. Get the one that is high enough.

        I have a couple of BUIS and they are very crude. Even if you get a decent zero with them, reliable hits at 200 yards on a upper torso is very challenging. Between finding a set that zeros, that will stay secured when getting banged about, and that is marginally reliable, I think one may be better suited with a micro dot sight as a back up.

        LR55

        Comment

        • Frontier Gear
          Warrior
          • Nov 2017
          • 772

          #5
          Originally posted by Sticks View Post
          I really't don't expect much from Backup Iron Sights. They are back up, not primary.
          Originally posted by LR1955
          I have a couple of BUIS and they are very crude. Even if you get a decent zero with them, reliable hits at 200 yards on a upper torso is very challenging. Between finding a set that zeros, that will stay secured when getting banged about, and that is marginally reliable, I think one may be better suited with a micro dot sight as a back up.
          Both good points. With some of them I had a hard time hitting the broad side of a barn, and I would have to preposition them after every shot. With the Griffin, we were getting consistent 1 inch groups at 50 yards though. Not bad for a back-up option. I'd be comfortable taking a deer within 100 yards with them.

          Personally I don't like anything that takes batteries on my hunting rifles. Nothing wrong with technology, I love having range finders when hunting. I just don't want it on my rifle. With my luck I'd be fiddling with it trying to turn it on, adjust it, re-boot it, or have the batteries die just as that buck I've been waiting for all week steps out.
          Engineer, FFL and Pastor

          Comment

          • Klem
            Chieftain
            • Aug 2013
            • 3509

            #6
            Why do you need them?

            I know it's all about if your primary optic crashes but let's be realistic, how often does that happen? I saw it on Saving Private Ryan when the German sniper gets shot through the scope (which was debunked on Mythbusters) but then again, he wasn't too healthy to use his iron sights. On the other hand Nightforce or Leupold has a photo on their website of a scope shot by bad guys that still worked, and didn't need BUIS. But let's be realistic...What's an imagined scenario when you, not the military, need BUIS? You go on a hunting trip and your scope comes loose. If you torque your screws every time you take that gun out it's not going to happen. Even if it still comes loose and you can take off your scope in the field (because you happen to have the correct screwdriver handy) then are you going to trust your BUIS to continue the hunt? Or are you going to head back to the truck?

            Are we talking about some post-apocalyptic world imagined by Preppers where society breaks down and your red dot scope runs out of power, ten years into the future, and you are still alive? Home invasion maybe where again, the red dot doesn't go on? Swimming through a river and the cheap optic you bought is not waterproof? Do you bush-bash a lot if you're not carrying a tax-payer funded rifle? The more likely scenario is a loose scope which cuts your trip to the range short. Even if you've driven hours to get somewhere you then drive into town to get it fixed. In a rare home defence situation where you bring up your sights and realise you need BUIS...How often does that happen? And you then have time to do transition...bearing in mind if it's a proper scope the rear BUIS will be under the scope and cannot be lifted until the scope is removed from the gun, unless you have QD levers, and have the precious seconds to do this, and also have time to buy a winning lottery ticket, and on it goes.

            From another point of view, if you think genuine BUIS are 'overpriced' then you've already made up your mind that they are not a priority. My thoughts are to save your money and not put a set of cheap or counterfeits on your gun that just make it heavier and are prone to loss of zero, and you don't trust them anyway.

            If you are looking for iron sights you could consider complimenting rather than replacing the main optic on your gun. That's a more likely scenario. Something like a laser or 45degree offset sights. Always deployed and the main scope doesn't have to come off. Short range shooting where the scope is too slow or doesn't work. Again, get a genuine set of Dueck's or KAS offsets (be careful of Chinese clones). Genuine's cost hundreds of dollars and if this seems unreasonable then don't get them because clearly you don't think you'll ever need them. Repeatability in sight systems costs money and there's no way around this fact.

            Another option is to have a compact red dot on the primary sight. Or, have the primary sight on QD mounts and carry a spare, zeroed red dot in your gear. Keeps your gun lighter and more compact/streamlined.

            Bottom line, cheap counterfeit gun parts are a scourge, for a scenario so unlikely that yet another option is to spend that money on ammunition instead.
            Last edited by Klem; 11-26-2017, 12:21 AM.

            Comment

            • FOGII
              Bloodstained
              • Nov 2016
              • 26

              #7

              Comment

              • Frontier Gear
                Warrior
                • Nov 2017
                • 772

                #8
                Originally posted by Klem View Post
                Why do you need them?

                I know it's all about if your primary optic crashes but let's be realistic, how often does that happen?
                Where I live it happens almost every hunting season. Weather conditions get just right with fog and humidity in the air and your scope fogs up. I live on the Kettle River. There is great hunting around here, but there can be lots of humidity. We can have a nice snow on the ground, but then it starts warming up.... Fog. It can roll in fast and burn off just as quickly, but it is very common for people to miss an opportunity at an animal due to a fogged scope in this neck of the woods. Most people around here are using bolt guns and lever actions. They mount scopes on the bolt guns with "see through" mounts for their iron sights. This works, but puts the scope up high and they loose their cheek weld. When I show people an AR hunting rifle with 45 degree backup sights the first thing they say is "I need those!" and then they tell their story about a missed opportunity due to a fogged scope.

                Another example that I just saw last week was when my friends horse fell and landed on his hunting rifle that was in a scabbard on the horse. That's not too friendly for the optics or the gun in general. Last year my 13 year old son banged my scope and broke it while we were hunting. My point being that optics get damaged, especially when they are out in the woods every day, all day.

                Good quality 45 degree BUIS make a lot of practical sense. If your scope fogs up or gets damaged, simply pop up the sights and tilt your rifle. You are now good for 100 yard shots. No tools needed and they don't raise your scope up higher than it should be.

                I'm not building a zombie killer and just want to trick out my AR. I'm just trying to solve an old problem using the modern sporting rifle and the features that it offers.

                I'm willing to (and have already) paid hundreds of dollars for my 45 degree backup sights, because I do feel that they are worth it. However, I'd love to find a better deal (who doesn't want to save some money?).


                Here is my cabin a few weeks ago. As you can see, it can be prone to fog and the ground can be steep and slippery.
                cabin.jpg
                Engineer, FFL and Pastor

                Comment

                • LR1955
                  Super Moderator
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 3355

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Frontier Gear View Post
                  Both good points. With some of them I had a hard time hitting the broad side of a barn, and I would have to preposition them after every shot. With the Griffin, we were getting consistent 1 inch groups at 50 yards though. Not bad for a back-up option. I'd be comfortable taking a deer within 100 yards with them.

                  Personally I don't like anything that takes batteries on my hunting rifles. Nothing wrong with technology, I love having range finders when hunting. I just don't want it on my rifle. With my luck I'd be fiddling with it trying to turn it on, adjust it, re-boot it, or have the batteries die just as that buck I've been waiting for all week steps out.
                  FG:

                  Seems like you got what you want. I understand trying to find something cheaper but if you trust what you have already, stick with it.

                  LR55

                  Comment

                  • Klem
                    Chieftain
                    • Aug 2013
                    • 3509

                    #10
                    Originally posted by FOGII View Post
                    Klem,

                    The Myth Busters episode ref’d GySgt. Hathcock’s shot. Myth Busters did not debunk the shot, they used a down loaded .308 Rem 700 (1-11 twist) with a Sierra 168 MK shootting different scopes vice a Win 70 30-06 (1-10 twist) with AP shooting at the correct scope. They later correctly replicated the shot successfully.

                    Back-up irons depends on usage. Scope fails in a short range firefight then the 45 degee offsets work. I go with MagPuls on vehicle guns (AR rifles and pistols) zero’d 100 or 200 yards depending on round used.

                    Currently Palmetto has a sale on MagPul sets for $50.00.

                    S/F, FOG
                    I think you missed my point...What are the chances you're going to get shot through a scope like in a movie? AND, then be in a condition to use your BUIS? All the while being a civilian who is not in a fictional movie script?

                    'Scope fails in a short range firefight?' How often do scopes fail, in a civilian firefight, in the US, in 2017? How many 'firefights' do you find yourself in where you live?

                    If your scope fails because in the (unlikely) scenario a horse falls on it then you go into town and get it, and the horse fixed. If your 13year old son bangs his scope and wants to continue the hunt then you give him yours if game presents itself, or punctuate the need to be more careful by ending the hunt. My experience over the years is that scopes do not get damaged often and there's always an alternate scenario that mitigates the need to have BUIS'. But, if you want to be prepared for every scenario then make sure you have a torch on the weapon as well, and a bipod, and a DBAL, and a foregrip, and a second back-up BUIS in case both the scope and the BUIS breaks at a critical time. You never know (when you ignore your actual self for an ideal). And maybe coat the lenses with anti-fog if that's an issue.

                    Nice picture of the cabin BTW.

                    Comment

                    • StoneHendge
                      Chieftain
                      • May 2016
                      • 2009

                      #11
                      I would consider myself a "birther" and a "denier". Some might call me a "conspiracy theorist". I just consider myself wise. I would not, however, consider myself to be a "prepper". I have learned through life experiences, however, that one can never be too prepared because life and the world can change in an instant and situations may arise when society may be "dislocated" and one may very well be alone and only with strangers, surrounded by chaos, no way to travel other than with my feet, and have no ability to communicate with friends/family. I do therefore keep a 556 carbine in my non electronic safe with BUIS, the 300 BLK truck gun I am building will have a red dot and BUIS, and I keep a good old fashioned 357 lever gun with iron sites in my office. Unfortunately, every time I try to check on the emergency tin foil hats that I keep in the AR grip storage compartments, they are wrinkled/crumpled beyond use!
                      Let's go Brandon!

                      Comment

                      • zcostilla
                        Warrior
                        • Aug 2017
                        • 110

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Klem View Post
                        Why do you need them?

                        [DIALOG OMITTED]

                        Another option is to have a compact red dot on the primary sight. Or, have the primary sight on QD mounts and carry a spare, zeroed red dot in your gear. Keeps your gun lighter and more compact/streamlined.

                        Bottom line, cheap counterfeit gun parts are a scourge, for a scenario so unlikely that yet another option is to spend that money on ammunition instead.
                        I personally don’t need them and don’t intend to put them on my Grendel. My son never intended for iron sights to be his primary, but I talked him into a cheap set (A BIG MISTAKE) while he saved up for a quality red dot. In the end, I bought him a TRS-25 red dot as a Christmas gift because I talked him into wasting his money. But I encouraged him to get another set of BUIS later for the time his red dot battery failed and also because this is his first rifle and it is my firm opinion that becoming proficient at shooting iron sights will make him a better shooter all-around, and BUIS are a way of not having to recheck zero if he removes his red dot.
                        -Zac

                        Husband, Father, Veteran. Grateful for my redemption.

                        Comment

                        • HowaGrendel
                          Bloodstained
                          • Sep 2017
                          • 99

                          #13
                          Learning how to use open sights also helps make you a better shot with optics.....the repeatability on shooting accurate shots with open sights are useful things to learn and practice...having a reliable, accurate set of open sights should be a given....

                          Comment

                          • FOGII
                            Bloodstained
                            • Nov 2016
                            • 26

                            #14
                            Klem,

                            Your point about a fictional movie script while Myth Busters attempts were of an actual event.

                            The fact is scopes have been shot and Marines remained in the fight using the back-up sights on the ACOGs, Trijicon has/had some of the scopes. Admittedly the bullets didn’t penetrate completely.

                            Hopefully no more firefights but better to be prepared. Failure can either be damage to the scope (not getting the scope back in operation) or debris of some kind that can be cleaned up when time permits.

                            My experience that good quality scopes with good quality mounts are not often damaged from falls, drops etc. unless a lense is struck. Cheap stuff on the other hand… I have seen more temporary failure from getting the lense(s) dirty.

                            S/F, FOG

                            Comment

                            • Frontier Gear
                              Warrior
                              • Nov 2017
                              • 772

                              #15
                              Nice picture of the cabin BTW.
                              Thanks, I took it when I was walking back down the mountain after scouting. It looked cozy and I was thinking of a nice hot cup of coffee.

                              My experience over the years is that scopes do not get damaged often and there's always an alternate scenario that mitigates the need to have BUIS'
                              I guess that our experiences differ. If you don't like BUIS or see the need for them, that's fine don't use them. I still want them on my hunting rifles though.

                              Seems like you got what you want. I understand trying to find something cheaper but if you trust what you have already, stick with it.
                              I plan on staying with these for the rifle that they are on, but I'm building a second one and would like to hear what others have had success with (or had a bad experience with) before I purchase the next set. There is such a variety of quality out there that it would be nice to hear from people who have tried some of the specific brands/models.

                              I really didn't want/expect this to become a debate on if BUIS are needed or not. I was actually just looking to share some feedback and prices on hardware in hopes of finding a better deal.
                              Engineer, FFL and Pastor

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