WTB - 6.5 Brass Help a fella our

[lrgrendel]

Supply and demand folks. Supply has increased on Grendel brass, but there is still a lot of demand. Unpopular calibers are always cheaper, as are commodity calibers. I don't even bother to pick up 9mm brass. And only certain 556 brass.

Used or new Grendel brass is not out of alignment with other lower volume calibers. The more popular it gets the lower the price will come as more manufacturers and more used brass enters the market.

That said, when Grendel brass in bulk has reach the same level as much older and more popular calibers, we can't complain too much. I can't complain too much when I can go to Cabela's and buy Hornady Grendel brass for the same as 22-250 or similar. And close to the price for 243, Etc.

I don't think we'll ever see Lapua anything cheaper than the current prices. Hornady bulk pricing is approaching the floor for other similar size rifle brass.

What brand of 556 brass do you like to pick up?

[LRRPF52]

So it was only made for a short amount of time? What a bummer.

American Gunner is a continual brand and product line from Hornady, including 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 Grendel, .300 Blackout, .223 Rem, and .308 Winchester.

It's not a limited run. I got cases of it for $109.99/200, so every time I pull the trigger, it actually goes up in value.




Or you can buy Grendel brass from Midsouth for about 50 cents a piece. https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...oint-5-grendel

I wonder why it isn't on Hornady website.

It's their newest American Gunner offering.

[StoneHendge]

Starline Grendel brass should come in at 35-40 cents per shipped using their 6.8 SPC brass as a proxy. It should also be a lot beefier than Hornady brass, plus made in the good ole USA

[pinzgauer]

What brand of 556 brass do you like to pick up?

Mil brass not fired thru machine guns, other decent, clean commercial brass in enough quantities that I can get a batch of 50-100+ similar cases.

IE: I have enough on hand that I can be selective. And I tend not to reload it much except for special loads.

Same for 9. Others, like 45, I'll grab any clean cases I can get as the exact case volume is not critical to me and I tend to lose it.

Calibers like 10mm and 41 mag I just use starling bulk, as it helps to have consistent brass and it's cheap/widely available.

If you are selling I'd be interested in any 280 or commercial 7x57 clean brass. Or 8x57.

[pinzgauer]

Guess was trying to point out that if the royalties where not there and it was made available to all to use without such royalties it would help. I did see Starline making it available and may pick up some when it does.

Royalties are one of the never ending Grendel myths.

As mentioned, there have not been royalties in many years probably over a decade. And when they existed they were nominal.

I was chatting with Bill Alexander earlier this year and asked him about it. Early on in the Grendel development there was a very strong desire by some barrel mfgs to modify the chamber, but still call it grendel. Particularly the neck and throat. This typically caused issues with cartridge flexibility and functioning for future plans like steel case ammo and full auto military usage.

So to try to manage that and avoid the debacle that 6.8 SPC later experienced, the name was copyrighted and a nominal royalty was attached to allow legal enforcement. If you called it Grendel you had to use the official Grendel chamber, neck, and throat. Bill indicated it was very nominal, a penny an instance or something like that.

The sole intent was to make sure that if people modified the chamber, they could not call it Grendel. It cost AA far more than anything they made off the royalties to manage this.

What it avoided was the exact situation that 6.8 SPC is in. Once Grendel was passed the key development cycle and had become accepted in its current configuration, the need to maintain that was much reduced. It was time to make the cartridge SAAMI.

I see the wisdom in this approach in retrospect. Especially observing what happened with SPC, and also the increased flexibility that the compound Grendel throat provides with a wide range of ammunition.

There is substantial evidence that most of the so-called improved Grendel Chambers did not offer enough benefit to justify variation. And definitely caused problems with other plans, like steel case and full auto. Primarily talking about tight necks here and oddball throats. We've seen it here in the forum with at least two well-known chamber/throat variants where people had issues with Factory ammunition.

But ultimately the intent was not to disallow experimentation on chambers, people can always do that. But it was to make sure that the cartridge that became known as Grendel would be able to meet all of its design objectives. Many of which were broader than Single Barrel manufacturers or Builders could envision.

If he and Alexander Arms had not stuck firm on this we probably would not be seeing volume production in Eastern European factories of Grendel ammunition as well as potential usage and platforms like the AK, Etc. No steel case (love it or hate it).

[usmcm16a2]

Stonehenge,


Hornady is not made in the USA, not picking a fight just curious? A2

[AppalachianGunSlinger]

That is some good information as I was and have been under the impressoin of royalties due mostly to the stories of one manufacturer dropping the name and changing his chambering slightly to keep from being copyright under the royalties fight.. ie 264 LBC

But would be interested then if this is the case then what happened there and why if not royalties or the where only like 1cent per. Again I was under the impression of anything Grendel carried some type of royalty but never really heard how much. Figured it was either by volume or per year contract. Which by reckoning would drive up market prices to offset extra costs incurred by manufacturers.

[AppalachianGunSlinger]

So back on topic still looking for some brass...

[pinzgauer]

That is some good information as I was and have been under the impressoin of royalties due mostly to the stories of one manufacturer dropping the name and changing his chambering slightly to keep from being copyright under the royalties fight.. ie 264 LBC

But would be interested then if this is the case then what happened there and why if not royalties or the where only like 1cent per. Again I was under the impression of anything Grendel carried some type of royalty but never really heard how much. Figured it was either by volume or per year contract. Which by reckoning would drive up market prices to offset extra costs incurred by manufacturers.

Without derailing the brass search thread more, that particular mfg example was subject to some very misleading information by some popular blogs, TFB being one of the bigger ones. Much of the info was flat out wrong, and it sure had the perception of having an axe to grind. There also appears to have been some falling out between LW, LBC, and Satern with AA around this time, probably due to control discussions on the cartridge.

Just remember, early on there were some strong differing opinions at the time about tighter necks and the compound throat. Some based on perceived "improvements", others based on mfg complexity.

Those changes could have/did impact reliability/performance, so AA as the primary driver of the cartridge, with a huge investment, needed to maintain control. "You want to change it, you can't call it Grendel".

I trust Bill Alexander on this. Don't want to put words in his mouth, have never seen the legal agreements, etc. But based on the discussion I had with him, I totally understand why they did that. Likewise, his explanation has far more detail and specifics than we have ever heard from the barrel mfgs. It was a bit of a gamble, but it paid off. All you have to do is look at SPC II and similar to see the potential pitfalls. And also the fact that when the time was right, released for SAAMI and drop the copyright and any legal restrictions.

Remember, contract law has to have a financial impact to be enforcable. "For the sum of $1 and other valuable consideration" is how pretty much all purchase/licensing contracts start.

BTW, Bill readily concedes that the LBC will perform better with the single bullet it was optimized for, but that was not what the Grendel objective was. He was working further ahead, already working on steel case, non-AR mil platforms, etc. Grendel had to perform across a wide range of platforms/projectiles.

[AppalachianGunSlinger]

Also could have been changes in management interests or higher investor interests. I did not see the TFB article. And due to my TBI dont remember all the specifics at all. In the end who to trust. I am somewhere in the middle on most things. Something is usually left out. Though, most of the time reporting is speculation based off of available information at the time either gathered, leaked, or stolen. So what really happened, details to details who knows. What I do know is that from what you said and I should know better myself based on how much misinformation is out there on things like this. That there was more to the story than what was being reported. The only facts I do know is that AA and LBC parted ways on it and LC changed his chambering. Only those two know what really transpired. I dont dislike either really, I do think that they push the market in their own unique way. I have no skin in that game either way and dont own either companies products just intellectuall property. Either way I am glad that they both do their thing and besides what they produce, have invented, and some other small details on their lives. I know only what is passed on either reported or through forums like this one. It is interesting non the less to find out more history behind a idea and project that I am working on. I am especially into this side on military type history, development of any military arms. So in the end I am glad that you put in your two cents and let me know there was more to it.

BTW - I am good on brass now. Was able to get 300 pieces of AA brass once fired from another member here. I now need to research some into different loading for hunting, plinking, and so on. I still also need to work on reloading components. As far as dies I am under the impression that the Redding are the ones to get for the Grendel? Any bullet weights types I should definitely look for as I am still looking for reloading components. Admins I am looking still for Reloading Stuff. Good on Brass. Thanks!

[Sticks]

Pick the bullet around what you are going to do with the rifle. IOT what are your plans?

[AppalachianGunSlinger]

That is something that I will find out as I use the rifle and see where it will fit in. In the long scheme of things. I have other rifles and calibers to fill every concevable role. Looking at getting the reloading manuals too and trying to research more. But looking at doing some hunting, maybe like a SPR type role, and plinking..

[Sticks]

120gr or heavier bullets. Higher BC for longer range accuracy.

Lapua
Hornady ELD
Sierria Match King