If Howa REALLY wants to improve their Mini...

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  • jason miller
    Warrior
    • Dec 2016
    • 182

    If Howa REALLY wants to improve their Mini...

    There have been LOTS of suggestions on things that LSI should be doing differently with their Mini action Howa to improve upon it. Offering a floorplate or a blind magazine, especially with a longer COAL capability, seems pretty popular. Those detachable magazines are "ok" when they hold 10 rounds of .223, but pretty silly for 5 rounds of Grendel. It seems obvious that they were designed for the .223 and the Grendel was an afterthought. I get that, but even then I don't understand who in the world thought that building an action/magazine from scratch with no constraints would decide that 2.335" max COAL would be ideal, though. Probably someone who has no inderstanding of throat configuration, handloading, OR downrange ballistics. I also think it would be great if they were to have a version with a stock that was worth a damn, like their Alpine Hunter on the regular short action. Why in the world would anyone design and market a short, slim, lightweight action and then drop it in the clubbiest, overbuilt, ugly stock I've ever owned?

    But if I'm being totally honest, the biggest improvement on the Howa Mini line would be to make the .223 in 1:8" twist instead of that compromise 1:9" version. The Hornady 75 grain ELD is truly a bullet worth building a rifle around. It can easily be pushed to 2900 fps in a 22" .223, costs $20/100, and makes the 6.5 Grendel 100% superfluous. The only reason the Grendel has for existing is because that bullet can't fit in a .223 at AR magazine lengths. Why in the world would a company build another new action around the .223 and not optimize it to harness all the potential in a .223 case? My .223 can shoot the 75 ELD. But with a 9" twist, I'm sacrificing BC which takes away the point of shooting the bullet in the first place, and I can't get anywhere near the lands in that silly, ugly, overpriced, not-thought-out, plastic detachable magazine.
  • Sticks
    Chieftain
    • Dec 2016
    • 1922

    #2
    Originally posted by jason miller View Post
    ... I don't understand who in the world thought that building an action/magazine from scratch with no constraints would decide that 2.335" max COAL would be ideal, though. ...
    Because the majority of rifle shooters out there are not reloaders, and all the factory ammunition out there is made for AR15 mag length and chambers, which the 6.5 Grendel was born as. An AR15 caliber, not a bolt action.

    I will agree with you on the need for a better magazine system (10 round) and a floor plate made of metal with the mag release at the trigger guard.
    Sticks

    Catchy sig line here.

    Comment

    • jason miller
      Warrior
      • Dec 2016
      • 182

      #3
      Originally posted by Sticks View Post
      Because the majority of rifle shooters out there are not reloaders, and all the factory ammunition out there is made for AR15 mag length and chambers, which the 6.5 Grendel was born as. An AR15 caliber, not a bolt action.

      I will agree with you on the need for a better magazine system (10 round) and a floor plate made of metal with the mag release at the trigger guard.

      To play on your signature, I agree that most of the flock doesn't load their own. I'm simply pointing out that if designing something from scratch, which the Howa Mini and especially its magazine were, why limit it with the same handicap that bore the Grendel in the first place? It isn't the end of the world because a 123 Hornady is 25 thousands or so off the lands at max magazine length in my rifle. And a 123 A-Max or ELD is a good bullet. But a 140 will catch it at 600 yards even with a 200 fps handicap at the muzzle, and beat the 123 in wind deflection the whole way. If the point of a Grendel is for carrying downrange more efficiently, I'd like to be able to do it as well as possible. Those 140-class bullets suffer the same as the more aerodynamic bullets in my .223 Mini in that they won't be anywhere near the lands and still fit in these magazines. It's ok. I can live with single-loading any ammo I might load that will only be used for long-range plinking.

      Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe they couldn't make the magazine longer and still function reliably. But it sure would have been nice to throw even just another tenth of an inch into the design if it would have been possible, and hopefully any future developments might bear that benefit.
      Last edited by jason miller; 01-03-2018, 12:51 PM.

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      • Matt @ LSI
        Warrior
        • Nov 2015
        • 268

        #4
        Originally posted by jason miller View Post
        To play on your signature, I agree that most of the flock doesn't load their own. I'm simply pointing out that if designing something from scratch, which the Howa Mini and especially its magazine were, why limit it with the same handicap that bore the Grendel in the first place? It isn't the end of the world because a 123 Hornady is 25 thousands or so off the lands at max magazine length in my rifle. And a 123 A-Max or ELD is a good bullet. But a 140 will catch it at 600 yards even with a 200 fps handicap at the muzzle, and beat the 123 in wind deflection the whole way. If the point of a Grendel is for carrying downrange more efficiently, I'd like to be able to do it as well as possible. Those 140-class bullets suffer the same as the more aerodynamic bullets in my .223 Mini in that they won't be anywhere near the lands and still fit in these magazines. It's ok. I can live with single-loading any ammo I might load that will only be used for long-range plinking.

        Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe they couldn't make the magazine longer and still function reliably. But it sure would have been nice to throw even just another tenth of an inch into the design if it would have been possible, and hopefully any future developments might bear that benefit.
        maybe i can shed some light on some of these topics.
        the mini grendel was based off of SAMMI specs, and was also made around the 123gr bullet and not a 140 seeing as the 123gr is the most popular bullet weight of choice.


        ALL of the Howa .223's will be moving to a 1-8" twist, also a pet peeve of mine and i have since addressed this. please be patient, unfortunately updating these things takes a bit of time due to production lead times.

        thank you for your input!
        Last edited by Matt @ LSI; 02-12-2018, 03:03 PM.

        Comment

        • bj139
          Chieftain
          • Mar 2017
          • 1968

          #5
          Can these extra long cartridges fit in the mini action?
          Maybe it is necessary to go back to the short action.
          I don't think the long action is necessary... for now.

          Comment

          • BluntForceTrauma
            Administrator
            • Feb 2011
            • 3897

            #6
            Matt, if magazines are "being worked on," I request that they allow 2.400 COL. Anything beyond that is no longer a "mini" and why not just go to a standard short action?
            :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

            :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

            Comment

            • Matt @ LSI
              Warrior
              • Nov 2015
              • 268

              #7
              Originally posted by BluntForceTrauma View Post
              Matt, if magazines are "being worked on," I request that they allow 2.400 COL. Anything beyond that is no longer a "mini" and why not just go to a standard short action?
              noted, ill see what we can do.

              Comment

              • HowaGrendel
                Bloodstained
                • Sep 2017
                • 99

                #8
                Originally posted by Matt @ LSI View Post
                noted, ill see what we can do.
                Matt, Is a 6mm Creedmoor Threaded HB in Howa's thoughts ?

                Comment

                • grayfox
                  Chieftain
                  • Jan 2017
                  • 4295

                  #9
                  More mfrs - ie, Ruger - getting into the game is good for the customer and for the Grrrr popularity.
                  Competition sharpens everyone's game!
                  "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

                  Comment

                  • jason miller
                    Warrior
                    • Dec 2016
                    • 182

                    #10
                    Originally posted by BluntForceTrauma View Post
                    Matt, if magazines are "being worked on," I request that they allow 2.400 COL. Anything beyond that is no longer a "mini" and why not just go to a standard short action?
                    I would request the longest magazine length that works with the action as it already exists and still feeds factory ammo acceptably. Capping it shorter just for the sake of having it shorter would be a waste and not make any intelligent sense.

                    Comment

                    • jason miller
                      Warrior
                      • Dec 2016
                      • 182

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Matt @ LSI View Post
                      maybe i can shed some light on some of these topics.
                      the mini grendel was based off of SAMMI specs, and was also made around the 123gr bullet and not a 140 seeing as the 123gr is the most popular bullet weight of choice.
                      the magazines are being worked on currently, this is a pet peeve of mine.

                      ALL of the Howa .223's will be moving to a 1-8" twist, also a pet peeve of mine and i have since addressed this. please be patient, unfortunately updating these things takes a bit of time due to production lead times.

                      thank you for your input!
                      Yes, I understand that logic. I also understand catering to the masses, as you guys are a business and in this to make a profit. I'm just taking the rare opportunity of having a company representative who cares and listens to suggest how to make this cool little rifle even better.

                      And thanks for pushing on the 8" twist on .223s. I really do appreciate the fact that you're here and seeking to add improvements to the line.

                      Comment

                      • BluntForceTrauma
                        Administrator
                        • Feb 2011
                        • 3897

                        #12
                        Originally posted by jason miller View Post
                        I would request the longest magazine length that works with the action as it already exists
                        OK, yeah, I agree with that 100%.
                        :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

                        :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

                        Comment

                        • vandiemenlander
                          Unwashed
                          • May 2017
                          • 5

                          #13
                          My hatred of having a detachable mag where my hand is supposed to go while carrying a rifle is literally the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on a Howa barreled action at Brownells right now. If someone would come out with a hinged floor plate kit or a stock with a blind box I would be all over that. It would solve the oal issue too..

                          Or just make it in a standard short action which would solve everything.. And allow regular Howa action accessories.
                          Last edited by vandiemenlander; 01-04-2018, 10:29 PM.

                          Comment

                          • splashy
                            Bloodstained
                            • Oct 2017
                            • 58

                            #14
                            The plastic bottom metal does my head in. At only 28 inch pounds of a torque it cracked, and now I am awaiting a new one under warranty.....I love the firearm and the cal, but this bit of it is driving me to seriously consider selling it and going for the new Ruger Predator....

                            Comment

                            • adamjp
                              Warrior
                              • Oct 2014
                              • 112

                              #15
                              There is a great deal to be said for a Howa Mini in 6.5 Grendel, BDL style aluminium (or even plastic) bottom 'metal' and magazine system, with the 20in featherweight barrel in an ultralight composite stock. Like the Howa Alpine Hunter, but without the ugly DBM and so light it just disappears on your shoulder.

                              Howa_Alpine_Mountain_High_Res-1024x350.png

                              Fitted with Talleys and a nice compact 2-7 or 3-9 it would make an excellent scouting rifle or introductory rig for junior shooters / ladies / or recoil sensitive.

                              I could think about selling my custom made Zastava m85 for that kind of rifle (and it would go at a significant loss).
                              Last edited by adamjp; 01-07-2018, 07:24 AM.

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