Request for 120gr PPU HPBT load data

[Igor Kross]

Hello everybody,

I recently found out about the PPU Grendel ammo recall, so in an effort to make shooting my Grendel a little more affordable I'm just starting to get into reloading.
My brother has a Lee press he said I could use if I buy the components, so I ordered some dies, hornady brass, and some PPU 120gr HPBT bullets from Grafs.
I tried looking around the forums for any load data for that particular bullet but I couldn't find anything. If anyone knows offhand which thread I should look at that would be great.
Alternatively, if anyone has experience loading with this bullet I'd appreciate some guidance. My brother is ordering some powder and primers for himself later this week so he said
I could tack on my powder/primer order with his and we can split the hazmat charge. I did see a lot of people agree that AR-Comp powder works well for the Grendel in general,
so that's probably what I'm going to order. If it matters I'm going to be firing these out of my 20" AR.

Thanks for your help.

[VASCAR2]

I have a Friend that ordered the PPU 120 grain BTHP from Graf’s. I think he used CFE223 with CCI 450 primers in his load. I know he loaded 31.0 grains of CFE223 with 123 grain Nosler CC and 123 grain Sierra MK. The down side to using CFE223, Winchester 748, Leverevolution, Accurate 2520 or BLC2 is ball powders are not as temperature stable as AR Comp or IMR8208XBR. Varget is listed in loading data for the 6.5 Grendel and is temperature stable but the burn rate is not optimum for the 6.5 Grendel and doesn’t produce as high of velocity as other powders.

Sierra and Speer reloading data shows data with Alliant Power Pro Varmint and Pro 2000 MR powder. I’ve also seen data on Reloader 15 but I have never used these powders.

In my experience Ramshot TAC, Xterminaror/Accurate 2230, H-322, Benchmark, or H-335 do better with lighter bullets.

I don’t normally shoot in colder temperatures and CFE223 powder has worked well for me with 120-123 grain bullets. With ball powders you really are better off to test your loads in whatever temperature your likely to shoot. A hotter load developed in the low 20’s might have to much pressure when the temperature approach 80 to 90 dregrees or hotter.

The mangnum small rifle primers have thicker primer cups and are more suited to the AR-15’s floating firing pin. The. CCI 41 military primers and Federal AR primers are also safe. Some bench rest primers have thicker cups. There have been several threads on primers.

[biodsl]

I suspect you've already seen this, but just in case...As Vascar says, Sierra shows their 120 Match King loaded to 2.240 with Power Pro Varmint giving the best velocity. Given the lack of data on PPU 120 loading, this might be a place to start.

https://sierrabullets.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/sierra-bullets-65-grendel-load-data-112817.pdf

[Igor Kross]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Vascar: I live in Indiana and we get the worst on both ends of the spectrum as far as weather: really hot summers and really cold winters. If the AR-Comp is pretty temperature stable then that sounds like just the ticket.
I'll keep in mind your primer suggestions as well, probably go with whatever's cheaper from the ones you mentioned.

Biodsl: I did see that chart when I was researching, it got me thinking about the C.O.A.L. because I'm working with boat tail bullets, and that one matched the grain weight. I'm completely new to reloading, would it be safe to use that loading's COAL to start with?

Also, on Alliant's website the description for the Varmint powder doesn't mention anything about temperature stability, which given the place I live and wanting to shoot year-round seems important. Would I be safe using the same grains of the AR-Comp instead of the Varmint? Starting at the lowest grains suggested of course.

Thanks again.

[Drillboss]

Igor, being completely new to reloading, I'd suggest that you back off a couple steps and do some research. You cannot take one powder and substitute the data to another powder. Speer is the only source of pressure tested AR-Comp data that I've seen yet. Everything else that you've seen about AR-Comp is from someone playing with it and concluding, "Yep, it looks OK to me".

Here is Speer data for a 120 gr bullet that isn't yet available on the market: https://www.speer-ammo.com/downloads...ld_Dot_120.pdf

Their max load with AR-Comp is 2 grains less than PP Varmint.

Before you start reloading, buy one (or more) reloading manuals from someone such as Hornady or Nosler or etc and read and learn.

[Igor Kross]

Thanks for the advice and information Drillboss. I don't want to give the impression that I'm just going to start throwing things together. My brother has a Hornady
reloading manual that I'm going to read before doing any actual work. I think he said it's 9th edition and that there's a new one out that he hasn't gotten yet, but it
should be at least a good place to start.

[biodsl]

Biodsl: I did see that chart when I was researching, it got me thinking about the C.O.A.L. because I'm working with boat tail bullets, and that one matched the grain weight. I'm completely new to reloading, would it be safe to use that loading's COAL to start with?

I suspect 2.240 is a safe OAL. You really don't know until you check your specific barrel. Even if you don’t have a gauge you can check to make sure the PPU 120 is not into the lands. Seat a bullet to 2.240 in a unloaded, unprimed, unfired or re-sized piece of brass and see if it chambers by hand. Inspect the bullet for markings. There should be none. Re-measure the OAL to ensure the bullet was not pushed back into the case. If it’s still at 2.240. Now take it and load it in a magazine and chamber it with the charging handle and bolt. Reinspect the round. If there are no markings you should be good to go.

I began handloading using these resources:
NRA Basic Metallic Cartridge Reloading Course

Accuracyspeaks on Youtube Grendel loading series

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d81Qw2IpU80

Grendel Reloading Handbooks

http://www.ar15buildbox.com/shop/65-Grendel-Reloading-HandBooks.htm

The NRA course can be hard to find but it was (in my case) the least helpful part of my initiation. Go if you can find it in your area though. I answers a lot of basic questions. I highly, highly recommend the Grendel Reloading Handbooks since you’re loading for this cartridge. Between Youtube and the handbooks you’re on your way.

[Drillboss]

Thanks for the advice and information Drillboss. I don't want to give the impression that I'm just going to start throwing things together. My brother has a Hornady
reloading manual that I'm going to read before doing any actual work. I think he said it's 9th edition and that there's a new one out that he hasn't gotten yet, but it
should be at least a good place to start.

Good deal. Sorry, but I freaked out a little over the powder question.

I have an older Hornady manual that didn't have the Grendel data, so I used a buddy's 9th edition when I started reloading the Grendel. I got the 10th edition and the data didn't change, except for a couple more powders added for the 95-100 gr bullets. I would feel pretty comfortable using Hornady's 120-123 gr data for the PPU bullet.

Concur with biodsl on measuring bullets in your chamber. There have been times I couldn't load to published COAL for my rifle.

Between Hornady's book and the Grendel handbooks, you should be in pretty good shape. Welcome to the forum.

[VASCAR2]

Igor Kross I live just across the line and southwest of Vincennes so I understand about the weather. You don’t like the weather wait a few hours it’ll change. I still have some factory Wolf Gold with the same bullet from PPU so I can get you factory cartridge overall length if you need it. The PPU 120 grain BTHP bullet has proven pretty decent for accuracy out to 300 yards. Furthest I’ve shot it.


I kind of like the 120 grain PPU BTHP bullet for a cheaper do everything short range bullet. My 16” Faxon Group buy barrel produces good groups at 100 yards with factory Wolf/PPU 120 grain ammo.

[Igor Kross]

Biodsl: Thank you for the explanation of the process, really really helpful. I'll be sure to check my barrel the way you described.
I did a quick search about he NRA course you mentioned but it didn't show anything in my area unfortunately.
I'll order the handbooks you mentioned as soon as I can.

Drillboss: Glad to know I'm not missing much between the 9th & 10th editions. Thanks!

Vascar2: I can't count how many times I've heard that about the weather around here lol. Sorry you have to deal with it too. Today's a prime example with this snow/ice storm.
I would be interested in that measurement you mentioned. I also still have some boxes of the recalled PPU ammo I haven't sent back yet.
I'd like to compare the Wolf Gold COAL to the PPU loads I have to see how similar they are, just out of curiosity.
It's a shame the PPU got recalled. It shot decently out of my rifle, and I didn't notice any problems with the fired brass. I'm not going to risk shooting any more of it though.
That's another reason I wanted to stick with the PPU 120gr bullet, it seems to do what I need it to, and it's inexpensive.

Thanks everybody and happy shooting!

[VASCAR2]

I measured some Wolf Gold 6.5 Grendel ammo I got in about 2011. Cartridge Overall Length averaged 2.242. The nose of the bullet not being cut evenly affects overall length but pretty certain measuring off the ogive the lengths would be more consistent.

[Igor Kross]

Thanks for measuring that Vascar2. When I get a chance I'll measure some of that PPU I have lying around.
Today my brother and I went and shot my first hand loads (not just for my Grendel, my first hand loads ever).
It went really well! He has a 100 yard range he just built this past summer, and a 10" steel plate set up at the end of it.
We loaded the PPU 120gr HPBT's over 24 grains of IMR 8208 (couldn't find any AR-Comp locally, but the shop did say they would order me some if I wanted).
We chose that loading based on the Speer Gold Dot 6.5 load data that Drillboss posted earlier.
No pressure signs, and from a braced standing position together my brother and I hit 19 out of 20 rounds on the plate. Didn't even re-zero my scope (it was zeroed at 200 yards for the factory PPU 120gr loading).
So I'm really happy!
The only thing we noticed was the firing pin is leaving marks on the primers when we chamber the rounds from the magazine. I used Wolf SRM primers because the local shop had them in.
Thank you all for your help and advice.

[jason miller]

Where in Indiana are you located?

AR Comp looks like a great powder for most bullet weights in the Grendel, from what I've seen. And I haven't concluded my testing yet(will have to wait for some warmer weather), but it also looks to be very temperature stable. For that matter, 8208 is doing quite well so far, too. If you find a good load for 8208, I wouldn't worry too much about changing to AR Comp. You should be able to achieve very similar velocity for the same pressure as AR Comp in this application, 8208 is rumored to be one of the cleanest-burning powders around, and it also has less tendency to lead to compressed loads because of the very small kernels. In short, it's a very good powder and there's a reason all these guys seem to like it.

[Igor Kross]

Hi Jason, I'm in Jennings County (North Vernon).

I don't have anything to compare it to, but so far the 8208 gets a thumbs up from me. When I went to the shop to get the AR-Comp, it wasn't there, so I picked up Varget at first (because I knew I'd seen it on some load data). After I got home I searched around online and people were saying it's not the best for the Grendel, and that 8208 was a better option. I was just going to exchange the Varget but my brother uses it for a few of the cartridges he reloads, so he bought the Varget from me, and I went back and got the 8208.

I also saw a thread where Sniper's Hide did some temperature testing and according to their data, the 8208 has slightly better temp stability than even the AR-Comp (Varget was first in their test if I remember correctly). Maybe once I get some more experience with reloading I'll test out some different stuff, but for now the 8208 will probably be my go-to.

[jason miller]

Nice. I grew up in between Greensburg and Batesville in Decatur County.

From what I've seen written and my own experience in the .223, you probably won't be able to get enough Varget in the Grendel to get good speed. It's fairly bulky. And unless you want to run a ball powder, 8208 and AR Comp have to be among the best powders for the Grendel. Another good one should be H4895, but I've never seen where anyone uses it. Idk why. I'm on my way to the range right now to try some out. Also, keep in mind that not all powders will show the exact same temperature stability traits in every cartridge/bullet combination. AR Comp and 8208 are probably both in the best class, though, even if one or the other might be slightly better depending on the specific application.