M80A1, M855A1 vs Level IV Armor

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • stanc
    Banned
    • Apr 2011
    • 3430

    #16
    Originally posted by Azgeek View Post
    Forgot to add my apologies to the OP for getting a bit off-topic here.
    No sweat. Having been guilty of helping threads go off-topic, I'm not one to complain.

    Besides, I was remiss in not making it clear that the thread was not meant to be about the state of the art of body armor, but about the state of the art of ammo than can defeat body armor.

    For example, the US Army's XM1158 Advanced Armor Piercing round (ADVAP), of which a tiny bit of info has finally dribbled out: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...icker-produce/

    I wonder if it's possible to develop a 6.5 Grendel AP round that can penetrate Level IV body armor?

    Comment

    • Azgeek
      Bloodstained
      • Aug 2015
      • 71

      #17
      "The problem with dealing with the Federal and many State governments is that legislators have exempted themselves from insider trading. The moment you actually meet a need or solve a problem they have that has serious potential for market, your intellectual property is subject to being passed off to investors who have relationships with larger companies that are in a better position to capitalize off the new product. Something to be aware of when approached by DoD or any Federal or State agency. The legislators and their friends know they can bury you in court, so they usually just steal the technology and laugh at you."

      Keenly aware of this. We have no illusions of fair treatment or compensation for the work we've done.

      Comment

      • Azgeek
        Bloodstained
        • Aug 2015
        • 71

        #18
        Originally posted by stanc View Post
        No sweat. Having been guilty of helping threads go off-topic, I'm not one to complain.

        Besides, I was remiss in not making it clear that the thread was not meant to be about the state of the art of body armor, but about the state of the art of ammo than can defeat body armor.

        For example, the US Army's XM1158 Advanced Armor Piercing round (ADVAP), of which a tiny bit of info has finally dribbled out: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...icker-produce/

        I wonder if it's possible to develop a 6.5 Grendel AP round that can penetrate Level IV body armor?
        You know I want to go there......

        Comment

        • Azgeek
          Bloodstained
          • Aug 2015
          • 71

          #19
          I can however openly discuss our pistol technology and capabilities if there is interest.

          Comment

          • Azgeek
            Bloodstained
            • Aug 2015
            • 71

            #20
            "Whatever relationship existed between DoD and the 9 major body armor manufacturers seemed to come into play, because Pinnacle Armor wasn't willing to share licensing with them. This is a legitimate concern for DoD, because they are already used to working with large suppliers for critical equipment, so Pinnacle's unwillingness to license to Ceradyne, Point Blank, etc. was a major red flag. They didn't want to be left out hanging with all their eggs in one basket with Pinnacle, so a campaign to discredit the armor technology of Dragonskin was launched and successfully executed."

            Dam LR55 you know your stuff! We would be required to license the technology to those in the "good old boys club". Found out that if adopted, the DoD would require multiple suppliers. Don't know that we were ever asked to share anything, but I do know that we did disclose all aspects of the technology, capabilities and patent information with Picatinny Arsenal when we met with them face-to-face in Florida a few years back. I don't think we would be open to "share" but certainly to lease (at FMV) to large manufacturers already in the supply chain.

            Comment

            • stanc
              Banned
              • Apr 2011
              • 3430

              #21
              Originally posted by Azgeek View Post
              You know I want to go there......

              Comment

              • stanc
                Banned
                • Apr 2011
                • 3430

                #22
                Originally posted by Azgeek View Post
                I can however openly discuss our pistol technology and capabilities if there is interest.
                Well, I am a little curious about the lavender tips.
                Is that to make them look chic and less menacing?

                Comment

                • Azgeek
                  Bloodstained
                  • Aug 2015
                  • 71

                  #23
                  Well its a play on Viagra. Our ammo will make you stiff (as in dead!). Seriously though. At the time, I think it was the only solid color not used by Saami for a specific designation. We are hoping it will be adopted to indicate future ceramic-based ammunition. The ballistic tip is required for proper feeding. Otherwise it would just dig into the feed ramps - especially those with very steep ramps. The really good thing was that the SOCOM testing had zero feeding issues.

                  Comment

                  • LR1955
                    Super Moderator
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 3355

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Azgeek View Post
                    "Whatever relationship existed between DoD and the 9 major body armor manufacturers seemed to come into play, because Pinnacle Armor wasn't willing to share licensing with them. This is a legitimate concern for DoD, because they are already used to working with large suppliers for critical equipment, so Pinnacle's unwillingness to license to Ceradyne, Point Blank, etc. was a major red flag. They didn't want to be left out hanging with all their eggs in one basket with Pinnacle, so a campaign to discredit the armor technology of Dragonskin was launched and successfully executed."

                    Dam LR55 you know your stuff! We would be required to license the technology to those in the "good old boys club". Found out that if adopted, the DoD would require multiple suppliers. Don't know that we were ever asked to share anything, but I do know that we did disclose all aspects of the technology, capabilities and patent information with Picatinny Arsenal when we met with them face-to-face in Florida a few years back. I don't think we would be open to "share" but certainly to lease (at FMV) to large manufacturers already in the supply chain.
                    Wasn't me. It was LRRP52 who made this statement.

                    I was aware of the Pinnacle incident but it was after my time and they did themselves in by first lying about their testing and then providing a item that fell apart in extreme heat. I believe it was the glue they used to hold the little plates together.

                    They did a good enough job discrediting themselves without the help of DoD.

                    As for the plates that the guys were given for Afghanistan and Iraq? I know of several guys who would have been dead if they didn't have at least the chest plate. I also know of one that was killed by a round that went between the chest and back plate. Thus causing the uproar about side armor.

                    Anyway, still do not know the method of defeating current body armor with small arms ammunition other than a real hard projo with a real sharp tip going real fast.

                    LR55

                    Comment

                    • Azgeek
                      Bloodstained
                      • Aug 2015
                      • 71

                      #25
                      Sorry about the LR55. Got my LR's mixed up. Yea Namo's 556 AP does just that. I've been told its structure is just like 50 bmg ball - a jacket around a solid tungsten core. Not even close to "green" and has no no terminal effects on soft targets - among other things!

                      Comment

                      • stanc
                        Banned
                        • Apr 2011
                        • 3430

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Azgeek View Post
                        At the time, I think it was the only solid color not used by Saami for a specific designation. We are hoping it will be adopted to indicate future ceramic-based ammunition.
                        It looks like the color code for Dim Tracer ammo.


                        Comment

                        • Azgeek
                          Bloodstained
                          • Aug 2015
                          • 71

                          #27
                          I recently discovered that on NAMMO's site. Oh well. We may need to pick a new color but that was the original justification for the color choice.

                          Comment

                          • stanc
                            Banned
                            • Apr 2011
                            • 3430

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Azgeek View Post
                            I recently discovered that on Namo's site. Oh well. We may need to pick a new color but that was the original justification for the color choice.
                            Well, I sincerely wish you good luck finding a color that hasn't already been used by the military.

                            Comment

                            • Tex Nomex
                              Warrior
                              • Dec 2017
                              • 185

                              #29
                              Solid colors are out, then.
                              Skin tone with darker tips?
                              "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
                              -- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

                              Comment

                              • Azgeek
                                Bloodstained
                                • Aug 2015
                                • 71

                                #30
                                If we ever get that far I'll suggest we let the Grendel Horde make the recommendation. Do a poll or something like that. Tex - your in charge!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X