Larue + Vortex HS LR advice

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  • Lightscout
    Unwashed
    • May 2017
    • 14

    Larue + Vortex HS LR advice

    I've done quite a few searches and reading, but seem to have run myself in circles. Looking for some input on a potential scope+mount purchase. I'm currently assembling my first Grendel upper using a BA 20" barrel. The longest range in the area that I have easy access to is 500 yards. Someday I'd like to try 1k but no idea when or where I'd get the opportunity. Due to personal preference and discounts, I've decided on a Vortex Viper HS LR and a Larue mount. Not sure yet if I'll go with the 4-16x or 6-24x model but leaning towards the higher one as my eyes are not what they used to be. My question is do I need the Larue mount with the extra 10moa built in, or am I fine with a standard one? Do I pay the extra money in the hopes I find somewhere to shoot 1k or just stick to the standard setup? Someone out there has to be rocking this same setup, any experience would be appreciated!
  • VASCAR2
    Chieftain
    • Mar 2011
    • 6219

    #2
    I'm using a 20" Shilen 6.5 Grendel with DCM match profile barrel. I shoot at 450' ASL and decided to put a 20 MOA mount on my AR-15. My reloads produce the same velocity as 123 grain factory A-Max, roughly 2500 FPS at 70 degrees. If you use a BC G1 of .464 to .510 you can get a rough estimate of how much drop you'll have at 1000 yards. As an example many scopes will have 70 MOA of elevation adjustment, so you roughly have 35 MOA of usable adjustment, with a 20 MOA you have 55 MOA of adjustment.

    I'm using 6.5-20X50 Vortex Viper 2nd focal plain scope with mil dot reticle. I bought an Aadmount 20 MOA mount which is a very robust mount. This setup has worked well for me.

    My 16" J&T Distributing/Double Star 6.5 Grendel runs out of elevation between 700 and 800 yards. My Leupold Mark AR scope has a mildot reticle I can hold over to shoot a little further than the scope will adjust. This is with a zero cant one piece mount.

    The vortex Viper has a 30 MM tube which adds to bulk which is not ideal for a walking stalking rifle.

    I think you need to prioritize how your options, size/weight in relation to use, shooting from fixed position or walking, stalking hunting in mountainous hilly terrain.

    I have really been bitten by the 6.5 Grendel bug and for my 16" Faxon 6.5 Grendel which is a light handy rifle I bought a Vortex Diamondback 4-12 AO scope with Dead Hold reticle. The DB scope uses a 1" tube and I'm using a Warne 20 MOA mount. I could conceivably use this rifle for hunting out to at least 300 yards but still target shoot to 1000 yards. With the dead hold reticle I can have known hold overs for snap shooting in a hunting situation. I can still dial my scope if given the time for shooting known distance.


    To more specifically answer your question the elevation above sea level affects bullet trajectory and the bullet drop. The lower elevation the atmosphere is thicker which means you'll have more drag/drop. That's why I recommend using a ballistic calculator to see if the 10 MOA mount will give you enough elevation for your chosen load. I use Hornady ballistic calculator, simple and easy to use.

    I think the Vortex Viper HS with 24 power would be a good scope for your intended use.
    Last edited by VASCAR2; 01-23-2018, 09:10 PM.

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    • Lightscout
      Unwashed
      • May 2017
      • 14

      #3
      Using the Vortex app, it estimates roughly 41.3 MOA @ 1000 yards. Looking at the HS LR scopes, they have between 32.5-35 MOA elevation I could work with so I guess the 10 MOA mount would just barely get me enough for that 1000. Then again, that XLR reticle on the 6-24x looks like is has 32 MOA (online image hard to read) so in reality, if I choose to use the reticle too I wouldn't need to the 10 MOA mount? This is where I was talking myself in circles; am I on the right page at least with this assumption?

      I have other rifles for stalking or climbing trees with, this is strictly for range/bench work. Not looking to lug around a cinder block but weight is not my primary concern.

      Comment

      • Bigs28
        Chieftain
        • Feb 2016
        • 1786

        #4
        I've seen allot of used larue mounts for sale on ar15.com. might find a good deal there. Better to get a 10 or 20moa mount and not need then not get and need.

        Comment

        • VASCAR2
          Chieftain
          • Mar 2011
          • 6219

          #5
          Sounds like your thinking strait Lightscout, sorry I get carried away with my responses. I was kind of trying to give an idea how I make my decisions.

          From my experience dialing in the amount of drop at long range is more precise for me compared to using the hold over. I'm like Bigs28, I buy the 20 MOA in the event I ever need or want to shoot that far.

          On my to do list for my one 16" AR-15 in 6.5 Grendel with 0 cant mount is to replace it with a 20 MOA Warne.
          Last edited by VASCAR2; 01-23-2018, 11:09 PM.

          Comment

          • Lightscout
            Unwashed
            • May 2017
            • 14

            #6
            No problem VASCAR2, I appreciate your info. Nothing wrong with the post, I just wanted to make sure I was digesting everything you mentioned.

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            • biodsl
              Chieftain
              • Aug 2011
              • 1714

              #7
              What mounts are you considering? What's the price difference?

              Originally posted by Lightscout View Post
              Using the Vortex app, it estimates roughly 41.3 MOA @ 1000 yards. Looking at the HS LR scopes, they have between 32.5-35 MOA elevation I could work with so I guess the 10 MOA mount would just barely get me enough for that 1000. Then again, that XLR reticle on the 6-24x looks like is has 32 MOA (online image hard to read) so in reality, if I choose to use the reticle too I wouldn't need to the 10 MOA mount? This is where I was talking myself in circles; am I on the right page at least with this assumption?
              You're correct. With the XLR reticle you could dial in 10, 20, or 30 MOA and then hold over whatever else you need with the reticle. Just requires a little math ; )
              Last edited by biodsl; 01-25-2018, 01:45 PM.
              Paul Peloquin

              Did government credibility die of Covid or with Covid?

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              • VASCAR2
                Chieftain
                • Mar 2011
                • 6219

                #8
                Another reason I went with a 20 MOA mount is I’ve read it is not good to dial to the extreme limits on the elevation of your scope repeatedly. Read it is hard on the gears and springs in the scope. I doubt this would be an issue for High Dollar scope like , S&B, NF, US Optics or March.

                Even though my Vortex and Leupold scopes tracked correctly I still prefer not to max out the elevation.


                There might not be anything wrong with maxing out windage and elevation adjustments on scopes, might be internet rumor?

                I never shot my 223/5.56 at enough distance to ever need a canted mount. I figure if I can buy a good mount with 20 MOA cant for a price similar to 0 cant mount might as well get the 20 MOA mount. I have still been able to zero my scopes at 100 yards using a 20 MOA mount.

                Comment

                • Big Red Ram
                  Unwashed
                  • Dec 2017
                  • 16

                  #9
                  Maybe a dumb question from a newb but what is a 10. Or 20 MOA mount do??

                  Comment

                  • LRRPF52
                    Super Moderator
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 8569

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Big Red Ram View Post
                    Maybe a dumb question from a newb but what is a 10. Or 20 MOA mount do??
                    It puts the scope on a slope that points towards the bore line.





                    Another benefit to scope mount slope is that when you dial for elevation, your scope optical elements (lenses) are closer to mechanical and optical true than if you max out the erector tube inside the scope tube body.

                    There is a tube within a tube that moves when you crank on your elevation and windage adjustments, and here is where you start to see why some scopes cost $2000-$5600, and others cost $129-$300.

                    The optical engineering and manufacturing capabilities of a world-class scope builder are in a different league than most scope companies.

                    When you mis-align the lenses by depressing or elevating the inner tube from mechanical and optical center, the optical clarity shifts quite a bit on cheaper scopes.

                    For the OP's 500yd requirement, he doesn't need $2000 glass and 20 MOA of slope, but that certainly won't hurt him and will add confidence when he can see the target more clearly. The XLR reticle does allow a lot of holdover and great wind holds with your elevation compensation as well, especially if you live in a more dry area where misses show up with nice dust puffs.



                    For the stated applications, the Vortex Viper HS XLR is more than plenty, and a LaRue mount will work fine. Look at the LaRue VFZ mount option if you don't want QD. When the QD levers are correctly torqued, I find that I still need something strong to wrap around the levers to get them loose. The VFZ will also save you some coin, while getting you into a precision-made US mount.

                    Another important tool to have when mounting scope rings is a torque wrench with inch-pounds, using the manufacturer recommended torque specs balanced out and held in place with Blue Loc-tite.

                    Also, 500yds is child's play even for SBR Grendels, but the louder impact is very rewarding.

                    Last edited by LRRPF52; 01-31-2018, 03:10 AM.
                    NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                    CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                    6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                    www.AR15buildbox.com

                    Comment

                    • Randy99CL
                      Warrior
                      • Oct 2017
                      • 562

                      #11
                      May I try to simplify this concept? It wasn't very long ago that I didn't understand it.

                      Let's say your scope has 60moa total adjustment so when you mount it normally and sight it in you're zeroed at +30moa and -30moa.
                      Then you try to shoot at a distance that the chart tells you needs +40moa adjustment and you can't do it, you've only got +30.

                      But if you get a +20moa base, when you zero the rifle the scope now has +50moa and -10moa. Still 60 of adjustment but now the center line of the scope is skewed to move the adjustments to a more usable range.

                      I've put +moa mounts on most of my .22s and my Grendel. They usually don't cost any extra and all that -moa adjustment in the scope is useless anyway.
                      "In any war, political or battlefield; truth is the first casualty."

                      Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

                      Comment

                      • Big Red Ram
                        Unwashed
                        • Dec 2017
                        • 16

                        #12
                        Appreciate the explanation, thank you.
                        Thinking this is generally needed in fairly long range shooting + 500 yds with a grendel?

                        Comment

                        • Randy99CL
                          Warrior
                          • Oct 2017
                          • 562

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Big Red Ram View Post
                          Appreciate the explanation, thank you.
                          Thinking this is generally needed in fairly long range shooting + 500 yds with a grendel?
                          This page for the Hornady 123g SST shows that if you zero at 200yds the bullet will drop 51.3" at 500. https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...-123-gr-sst#!/

                          So I'd get a +20moa (or more) base for 500 yards.
                          I put +moa bases on any rifle I might want to try at longer ranges. Since it often doesn't cost any more, there's no reason not to.
                          "In any war, political or battlefield; truth is the first casualty."

                          Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

                          Comment

                          • Randy99CL
                            Warrior
                            • Oct 2017
                            • 562

                            #14
                            I'm always looking for a good deal and bought this base for my Grendel:MT_RSX20MOA_PRO_1.jpg

                            It's solid, sturdy, well finished and doesn't move or flex.
                            Made by UTG, MT-RSX20MOA. It is a +20moa base that fits over the pic rail and uses regular scope rings. Around $25 at opticsplanet or amazon.
                            "In any war, political or battlefield; truth is the first casualty."

                            Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

                            Comment

                            • CoronaGold
                              Unwashed
                              • Aug 2015
                              • 3

                              #15
                              +1 for the Vortex 24X.

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