Poll: Best hunting bullet for the Grendel?

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  • Nick
    Warrior
    • Dec 2014
    • 126

    #16
    +1 On the nosler 120gr bt.

    Comment

    • deershooter
      Unwashed
      • Jan 2016
      • 4

      #17
      SC...I am no expert but I do get a paycheck with my grendel. I have no hog experience but plenty of deer (216 for 2017). I started out with 123 Hornady A-max. Then I tried 123 Horn. sst. Then Barnes 100 TTSX and 110 LHD Controlled Chaos and now I'm back to 123 Horn. sst. All the named bullets were sub moa. with 8208xbr in my rifle. On deer it seems that the 123sst does best for me. The ttsx was great on penetration but not on expansion (low velocity ?). The LHD great tissue destruction but NO blood trail and no exit. Accuracy is the name of the game....a good bullet in the right place is better than a great bullet in the wrong place.
      Good luck...shoot straight and shoot a lot.
      God Bless

      Comment

      • Double Naught Spy
        Chieftain
        • Sep 2013
        • 2560

        #18
        Originally posted by sierracharlie338 View Post
        Ok I am about to start loading for my G. Ive been shooting ELD-M factory ammo to this point but want to see what the board says based on their experience. Obviously looking from something that performs well from about 75-200 yards.

        I looked for previous posts outlining hunting specific bullets but didn't see anything. I should also add this disclaimer, I am looking for the most accurate hunting bullet, because who isn't? I know that can be considered an oxymoron by some people but thats what I am after. Minute of barn isn't gonna cut it for me. Id prefer sub MOA up to plain old MOA will work i suppose

        So what says the board? ELD-M, Nosler, Berger, Spire Points, GMX orrrrrrrrr. . . . .

        Thanks,

        SC
        A wise man once said that if you want to hit the broad side of a barn, the smart shooter starts from inside the barn.

        Your opening post is interesting and a bit conflicted. You want a hunting bullet, the most accurate, and then you mention ELD-MATCH ammo - not a hunting bullet, but a match bullet. That isn't to say that match ammo can't be used for hunting. AMAX got a good reputation as a deer round even though it was not a hunting bullet. I have tried ELD-M on hogs and found the performance to be lackluster or inconsistent. Sometimes it worked well, sometimes not and the nots were too frequent. It may be fine for deer, but I don't hunt deer.

        This brings up the issue of what you plan to be killing. The only animal you have mentioned is deer. Is this for deer? Is this for hogs? Coyotes? Beaver? Maybe you are going prairie dog hunting? Maybe you need a round for mousing? I speak from experience in saying that the SST is absolutely devastating on mice in something very near to Keith Warren .50 BMG notoriety. This was done a little tongue and cheek, but the results are real - head shot on a mouse at 123 yards. The shot was a tad left but the mouse was blinded in one eye, had head trauma, was a double amputee, and was evicerated. To be quite honest, I don't know how well the 123 gr. Hornady SST opened up, but the mouse was certainly opened up quite nicely.


        Personally, I am in the overpenetration club like deershooter. If my prey doesn't fall dead where I shot it, I want a good blood trail to track it. If I don't find it, I don't get to count it.

        The SST is my go-to round for hogs. It isn't meat friendly either, but isn't nearly as bad as the VLD-Hunting. The SST will penetrate well, opening up quickly, breaking down as it penetrates the hog, leaving bits of lead and jacket in the wound channel and surrounding tissue. The core will often separate from the jacket. The round, in my experience, will commonly overpenetrate hogs with a broadside shot up to 200 lbs., frequently up to 225, and not so much after that, but I have had them exit in at least one case at 265 lbs (only a fragment). Keep in mind that I am not a reloader, so these were factory rounds.
        Kill a hog. Save the planet.
        My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

        Comment

        • Double Naught Spy
          Chieftain
          • Sep 2013
          • 2560

          #19
          The absolute most devastating round I have used on hogs is the Berger VLD-Hunting 130 gr. round loaded by Precision Firearms. Some of the wound channels I have seen produced look like they came from a much larger and more powerful round. This isn't always the case, but when it happens, it is morbidly spectacular. The round did NOT perform as Berger said that it should, penetrating, opening up and depositing all the energy internally, and creating hydrostatic shock without over penetrating and being meat friendly. Maybe that would be the case if fired from 6.5 Creedmore with a good bit more velocity - I don't know. I never saw any evidence for hydrostatic shock, even when hitting the neck (not the spine) behind the head. However, these bullets tended to penetrate deeply and do all sorts of damage from my Grendel. I would consider this round to be meat unfriendly if you are a meat hunter.

          This is a summary video I made. Each of these examples is better documented in their own hunt videos as well.


          I have had good luck with some 129 gr. ABLR that performed well on hogs that were loaded for me. It was a limited sample but they appeared to open well and penetrate well without all the nastiness of SST or VLD-Hunting, not that you would expect it. They make nice holes, meat friendly.

          I would say the same for Federal Fusion 120 gr. factory ammo that I am working with right now. As with the ABLR, this is meat friendly. I have yet to recover a bullet inside of a hog and the largest hogs shot so far is 230 lb. boar and 220 lb. sow. On the boar, the round went more through the neck, blasting the spine before exiting. On the sow, it was broadside on the shoulder and exited the opposite side.

          The absolute most accurate round I have fired from my rifle is Cavity Back MKZ 118 gr. These are monolithic bullets that were loaded by the manufacturer for me to test (again, I don't reload). In zeroing, had no problem with 3 shots touching at 100 yards. These rounds open up and seem to cut about a nickel to quarter-sized hole through the body. While meat-friendly, hitting heavy bone tends to break of the petals. These commonly overpenetrated on broadside shots. I also tried the 105 gr. variety. It was downright sloppy with 3/4" groups at 100 yards compared to the 118 gr. - absolutely sloppy. It performed similarly on animals but being lighter seemed to be more prone to petal breakage is the impression I came away with.

          As noted above, that accuracy aspect is going to depend on what your rifle likes. There is a lot of good ammo and bullets out there. Aside from what your gun likes, you will have to balance it what your intended goals are and how much you are willing to spend. Things like Berger VLD-Hunting and Cavity Back MKZ are comparatively very expensive. Since I don't reload, I am buying factory ammo or relying on the kindness of friends for some specialty loads, knowing either way that every time I pull the trigger, I hear a cash register sound as money flies out of my barrel.
          Kill a hog. Save the planet.
          My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

          Comment

          • sierracharlie338
            Bloodstained
            • Jan 2018
            • 43

            #20
            Originally posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
            The
            Yes mostly deer and pigs and anything else that may show up that needs to be removed from the property. Deer meat yes and pig meat probably not. While I don't have as much experience as you in terms of animal kills I have what I consider to be a decent amount of experience with ballistics. In a perfect world I would love to have a 120 grain Fusion bullet available for reloading. That isn't the case so that is the reason for the question. I am very aware there are tons of people that hunt with the ELDm but I desire a bit more killing performance out of my hunting rounds than that which is why I will plink with the ELDm and not hunt with it. I think maybe that got misunderstood? I have seen too many marginal results with the ELDm in contrast to the AMAX which I am also very familiar with. I have no issues shooting one ammo for plinking/target practice and another for hunting. In my 308 I do just that. Ultimately was just looking for recommendations on good hunting bullets with MOA or less accuracy in the Grendel platform. Sorry if there was some confusion

            Comment

            • Double Naught Spy
              Chieftain
              • Sep 2013
              • 2560

              #21
              No apology necessary. You've been given some good sources and options. I hope you find what you are looking for.
              Kill a hog. Save the planet.
              My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

              Comment

              • LRRPF52
                Super Moderator
                • Sep 2014
                • 8569

                #22
                Originally posted by sierracharlie338 View Post
                Yes mostly deer and pigs and anything else that may show up that needs to be removed from the property. Deer meat yes and pig meat probably not. While I don't have as much experience as you in terms of animal kills I have what I consider to be a decent amount of experience with ballistics. In a perfect world I would love to have a 120 grain Fusion bullet available for reloading. That isn't the case so that is the reason for the question. I am very aware there are tons of people that hunt with the ELDm but I desire a bit more killing performance out of my hunting rounds than that which is why I will plink with the ELDm and not hunt with it. I think maybe that got misunderstood? I have seen too many marginal results with the ELDm in contrast to the AMAX which I am also very familiar with. I have no issues shooting one ammo for plinking/target practice and another for hunting. In my 308 I do just that. Ultimately was just looking for recommendations on good hunting bullets with MOA or less accuracy in the Grendel platform. Sorry if there was some confusion
                To be honest, you would be hard-pressed to find a poor-performing 6.5mm hunting bullet ranging from 100-130gr for 6.5 Grendel, considering that most shots will be taken within 300yds.

                If you can't get SSTs to shoot, try the 120gr NBTs.

                I've had exceptional accuracy performance from SAAMI chambered Grendel barrels using factory SSTs.

                There have been years of posts discussing hunting-specific bullets for 6.5 Grendel, which there are far more of than the large selection of target bullets.

                There's a pretty comprehensive projectile list in Volume II of the Grendel Handbooks, and an updated projectile selection sticky here in the Ammunition and Reloading Forum.
                NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                www.AR15buildbox.com

                Comment

                • Keef
                  Warrior
                  • Jun 2017
                  • 296

                  #23
                  This is what I recovered from a 400+ lb black bear he went about 6yrds.
                  MVIMG_20180209_211355-1125x1500.jpg
                  Left the barrel as a 123g edl black.
                  Last edited by Keef; 02-10-2018, 01:19 AM.

                  Comment

                  • sierracharlie338
                    Bloodstained
                    • Jan 2018
                    • 43

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Keef View Post
                    This is what I recovered from a 400+ lb black bear he went about 6yrds.
                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]11044[/ATTACH]
                    Left the barrel as a 123g edl black.
                    What was the shot distance?

                    Comment

                    • Keef
                      Warrior
                      • Jun 2017
                      • 296

                      #25
                      60ish yards away.

                      Comment

                      • Djgrendel
                        Warrior
                        • Feb 2016
                        • 200

                        #26
                        I agree with LRRP. I've used most of the common bullets on deer and antelope. Or witnessed a friend's results. I don't think there is a best hunting bullet. Most of the factory made ammo is pretty dang good for hunting at normal range. I'd just pick what shot the best and stock up. Handloaded ammo I'd say the same thing. Find the bullet that shoots the best and feel confident that it will work when placed properly. That said, I have personally used 100 grain ballistic tip, 100 ttsx, 120 ballistic tip, 123 amax/sst, 120 pro hunter, 120 tsx, 129 sst and 129 ablr. They have all put meat in the freezer. I plan on trying the 100 grain partition and some of the newer monolithic pills this year. It's great to have so many options
                        Yard work is not an excuse!

                        Comment

                        • LRRPF52
                          Super Moderator
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 8569

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Djgrendel View Post
                          I agree with LRRP. I've used most of the common bullets on deer and antelope. Or witnessed a friend's results. I don't think there is a best hunting bullet. Most of the factory made ammo is pretty dang good for hunting at normal range. I'd just pick what shot the best and stock up. Handloaded ammo I'd say the same thing. Find the bullet that shoots the best and feel confident that it will work when placed properly. That said, I have personally used 100 grain ballistic tip, 100 ttsx, 120 ballistic tip, 123 amax/sst, 120 pro hunter, 120 tsx, 129 sst and 129 ablr. They have all put meat in the freezer. I plan on trying the 100 grain partition and some of the newer monolithic pills this year. It's great to have so many options
                          If you compare the options we have today, versus what we had when I was growing up, there has literally been a progressive bullet technology avalanche fall upon us, and I can't think of many that have been dismal failures.

                          Through the 1980s, we had a few choices:

                          Some type of cheap lead core, exposed lead soft point, flat-based bullet with rapid expansion, but varying degrees of controlled expansion from none to mediocre.

                          Nosler Partitions, which were everything above but with a wall in the middle of the bullet intended to keep the lead rear from expanding so that you would still have deep penetration and intended wound path along the POI.

                          Barnes X were relatively new, basically solid flat-based copper bullets that were meant to expand and retain all their weight.

                          Since that time, Barnes, Hornady, Nosler, Speer, Sierra, GS Customs, Lehigh Defense, and others have developed lines of bonded, boat-tailed, polymer-tipped, solid, or mechanically-locked hunting bullets that increase retained energy, retained weight, and controlled expansion.

                          The nice thing about 6.5 Grendel is that the moderate velocities still work very well with the legacy bullets like 120gr Speer, 120gr Sierra Pro Hunter, and 129gr Hornady SP. You don't normally have the unpleasant surprises associated with faster impact speeds typical of magnums, where severe deflection of the wound path can cause unrecovered runners where you weren't able to see the shot impact due to recoil.

                          An easy formula is to try however many bullets you can reasonably do within time and budget, and once you've found one, back the truck up on as many as you and your family will realistically need/want, and load them up.

                          Considering that a mature deer's heart/lung vital zone is 10 MOA at 100yds, 5 MOA at 200yds, and roughly 3 MOA at 300yds, I think a lot of people are being driven into excessive accuracy requirements by the target-shooting crowd and the expectation of MOA or better accuracy, when consistent 1.5 MOA accuracy is enough to make heart shots within 200yds.




                          This leads me to recommend picking a bullet and getting as much trigger time with your rifle/ammo/optics/mount/feed system/sling/etc. as possible.

                          The shooter who gets 100 good trigger breaks with target feedback using an economy bullet will have greater hit probability than the one who spends range session after range sessions chasing 1 MOA with different load work-ups, endless hours analyzing data, looking at their brass, second-guessing powders and primers, seating depth, etc.

                          There's a good case to be made for just picking a bullet, doing some basic load development, and nailing down a load quickly that you will then mass-produce and train with.

                          Or just buy a bunch of factory ammo and be done with it.

                          If you really want top accuracy, easy and quickest answer is to start with the best barrel/upper/rifle you can afford and don't look back.
                          NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                          CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                          6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                          www.AR15buildbox.com

                          Comment

                          • Djgrendel
                            Warrior
                            • Feb 2016
                            • 200

                            #28
                            I completly agree with lrrp's statement about having a 1.5 moa average is more than acceptable for hunting out to 300 yards or so. I strive for sub moa, but at what cost? My hunting buddy isn't a stickler for supreme accuracy. But no matter what loads he uses, critters hit the dirt. I've seen time and time again his targets with 3 or 4 different bullets in the same group at 1.5 moa or less at 100 yards. He basically just grabs a handful of ammo and shoots it. It's not that he is careless. He has fired enough rounds, to be comfortable knowing he will be successful at the distances he is willing to shoot at game. No matter what load happens to be in the magazine. His barrel is a 20" lilja, chambered by Mark at Precision.
                            Yard work is not an excuse!

                            Comment

                            • sierracharlie338
                              Bloodstained
                              • Jan 2018
                              • 43

                              #29
                              Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
                              the one who spends range session after range sessions chasing 1 MOA with different load work-ups, endless hours analyzing data, looking at their brass, second-guessing powders and primers, seating depth, etc.
                              Some of us are sick and can't help it

                              Guys I appreciate all of the input. I was simply looking for what everyone has seen to be a better than average performing hunting bullet that also had good accuracy to go along with it.

                              The debate about how small a gun should shoot and my abilities are not what I was needing critiqued. I am a precision shooter by default and yes I will spend hours testing loads chasing a 1/4 inch group or better. Thats just my therapy and I enjoy doing it. Do I expect an AR style rifle to shoot 1/4 inch groups? No not really but doesn't mean I can't try

                              Just to update everyone I took the LaRue Grendel out today on its virgin trip and shot about a 1/2 inch group @ 100 with the factory ELDm ammo with a 1-8 scope whose center dot is 1MOA @ 100 yards. I consider that about as good as it gets for me and an AR platform. Now that I am satisfied with a factory ammo selection that I can plink with Ill be woking up loads with some SSTs I picked up for killing deer.

                              Again thank you all for the input. Ill post my experiences as I load for the Grendel and hopefully I can stumble on a decent load. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while right?

                              Comment

                              • jhatch
                                Unwashed
                                • Feb 2016
                                • 3

                                #30
                                Originally posted by 6.5_fanatic View Post
                                I am loading the 100 grain nosler ballistic tip and the 120 grain Sierra prohunter for my 50 to 200 yard hunting. They are real accurate in my rifle.
                                What is your loading and velocity for the 100gr bt ?

                                Comment

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