How many still using CFE223?

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  • outbreaker
    Warrior
    • Feb 2018
    • 145

    How many still using CFE223?

    I have been using CFE223 since the great powder shortage. That caused me to use lots of powders I have never used before.

    I recently noticed that this powder has been delisted from both Hodgdon as well as Nosler in the 120gr bullet (I have heard that the bullets are too light for the powder). I am getting safe, accurate and relatively fast loads from it and hesitate to just give it up.

    How many here are still using it since the delisting?
  • Kswhitetails
    Chieftain
    • Oct 2016
    • 1914

    #2
    I’ll continue to use CFE. I’m not sure about the 120s being too light. I’d say if you have good safe recipes, make use.
    Nothing kills the incentive of men faster than a healthy sense of entitlement. Nothing kills entitlement faster than a healthy sense of achievement.

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    • Bigs28
      Chieftain
      • Feb 2016
      • 1786

      #3
      I use it with my 110g controlled chaos

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      • outbreaker
        Warrior
        • Feb 2018
        • 145

        #4
        Originally posted by Kswhitetails View Post
        I’ll continue to use CFE. I’m not sure about the 120s being too light. I’d say if you have good safe recipes, make use.
        I have always "Gone my own way". I use a chronograph and look for pressure spikes that show before brass signs will.

        I was using Benchmark when people here and other places lambasted me for using such a fast dangerous powder.......and now it is an officially listed powder with both Hodgdon and Nosler.

        I was just looking to see how many here are still using it. I know quite a few of the people I know are still using it.

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        • JASmith
          Chieftain
          • Sep 2014
          • 1620

          #5
          Originally posted by outbreaker View Post
          I have been using CFE223 since the great powder shortage. That caused me to use lots of powders I have never used before.

          I recently noticed that this powder has been delisted from both Hodgdon as well as Nosler in the 120gr bullet (I have heard that the bullets are too light for the powder). I am getting safe, accurate and relatively fast loads from it and hesitate to just give it up.

          How many here are still using it since the delisting?
          shootersnotes.com

          "To those who have fought and almost died for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
          -- Author Unknown

          "If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished!" -- Milton Berle

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          • outbreaker
            Warrior
            • Feb 2018
            • 145

            #6
            I heard a rumor it was because or weird pressure issues with low mass projectiles. It is still listed with Nosler in the 129gr (max 31gr) and if I remember right Berger still lists it in the heavier bullets.

            I got a weird velocity spike at 31.6 (3x more of a velocity increase over previous load that was 31.5)so I back off to my next previous accuracy node which was 31.2 with 120gr NBTs.

            You are right about it being almost a boring consistent rise in velocities.........up until my spike.

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            • kmon
              Chieftain
              • Feb 2015
              • 2095

              #7
              Perhaps I missed it but I never saw Hogdon list CFE223 as a powder for the 6.5 Grendel there are several threads indicating they said it is too slow of a powder for the Grendel.

              Hornady and Nosler listed it for some loads in the Grendel. With 123, 129 and 130gr bullets it is my go to powder and as long as it shoots like it does as reliable as it has been it will remain my powder of choice

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              • grayfox
                Chieftain
                • Jan 2017
                • 4295

                #8
                I still use it. Mainly for my 123's but in other loads as well. Hornady has data for it, and the Grendel Handbook vol 2 has it. I haven't seen spikes and don't have any worries when using it within its limits, iirc it is 31.2 for the Hdy data. My Howa uses it at 31.4.
                I also shoot it with the 129's (sst and ablr) and the 130 Nosler AB.
                "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

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                • BluntForceTrauma
                  Administrator
                  • Feb 2011
                  • 3897

                  #9
                  My main complaint with Hodgdon's data (and many others) is that they seem to have NOT included the best 65G powders. I've never seen Hodgdon list it originally, thus it can't have been de-listed. CFE223 remains one of the best 65G powders for the 120 class of bullets.
                  :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

                  :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

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                  • outbreaker
                    Warrior
                    • Feb 2018
                    • 145

                    #10
                    Originally posted by BluntForceTrauma View Post
                    My main complaint with Hodgdon's data (and many others) is that they seem to have NOT included the best 65G powders. I've never seen Hodgdon list it originally, thus it can't have been de-listed. CFE223 remains one of the best 65G powders for the 120 class of bullets.
                    I remember it being listed (at least for a while) because during the great powder shortage I was looking for new poweders to try and I had picked this up for my .308 win and saw it as a choice in the Grendel and loved it.

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                    • LRRPF52
                      Super Moderator
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 8569

                      #11
                      I didn't remember seeing Nosler 120-123gr data for CFE223, only 129gr ABLR. Hodgdon's has not published CFE223 data for 6.5 Grendel that I am aware of, and I called them once to ask about it even. They have a huge workload for testing powders with all the new bullets and cartridges that have emerged in the last 15 years.

                      Hornady was the first company to publish tested data for CFE223 from 95gr V-MAX and up in their 9th Edition.

                      It still is in the 10th Edition as well.

                      It's my go-to ball powder in 6.5 Grendel, very easy to work with.
                      NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                      CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                      6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                      www.AR15buildbox.com

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                      • NugginFutz
                        Chieftain
                        • Aug 2013
                        • 2622

                        #12
                        I have regularly polled the Hodgdon site for reloading data to support burn rate charts and available recipes. Never once have I captured a live specimen where CFE223 was included in their 6.5 Grendel loads. Perhaps the OP has mistaken the source, which might explain the apparent "de-listing".

                        Regardless, I've not had much luck with CFE223 in my 6.5's, but it has done quite well for me in the 5.56 / .223 loads I have. Even there, I find it a little temperature sensitive, so I tend to load on the conservative side.
                        If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

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                        • outbreaker
                          Warrior
                          • Feb 2018
                          • 145

                          #13
                          Originally posted by NugginFutz View Post
                          I have regularly polled the Hodgdon site for reloading data to support burn rate charts and available recipes. Never once have I captured a live specimen where CFE223 was included in their 6.5 Grendel loads. Perhaps the OP has mistaken the source, which might explain the apparent "de-listing".

                          Regardless, I've not had much luck with CFE223 in my 6.5's, but it has done quite well for me in the 5.56 / .223 loads I have. Even there, I find it a little temperature sensitive, so I tend to load on the conservative side.
                          Maybe it was on the Nosler site. I only went to Nosler and Hodgdon for information. I could be mistaken, I just remember seeing it online. The responses do help me feel at ease to both use it and share the information I have on it with friends.

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                          • LRRPF52
                            Super Moderator
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 8569

                            #14
                            Nosler has only published CFE223/129gr ABLR data.

                            CFE223 is one of the most forgiving, if not the most forgiving powder in 6.5 Grendel that I have used so far.

                            I've used it for 94gr-100 GMX, 95gr Controlled Chaos, 100gr TTSX, 107gr SMK, 120gr TSX, 123gr AMAX, 123gr SST, 123gr Nosler CC, 129gr SST, and 129gr ABLR.

                            Joe also pressure-tested it using a highly-calibrated test breech with RSI transducer gauges, so we know where it's at with the combos he has tested.

                            There is a ton of data for it in the 6.5 Grendel Handbooks for 95gr Controlled Chaos, 100gr AMAX, 120gr TSX, 120gr Ballistic Tip, 120gr Sierra Pro Hunter, 123gr AMAX, 123gr SST, 129gr SST, 129gr ABLR, 130gr Sierra Game King, and 130gr Swift Scirocco.
                            NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                            CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                            6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                            www.AR15buildbox.com

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                            • BD264
                              Bloodstained
                              • Jun 2017
                              • 80

                              #15
                              30.9 grains behind a 130g Berger VLD lit by a Remington 7.5 at 2.325" coal is my hunting load in my Howa 1500

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