MM3 -- Effectiveness of Repetition

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  • LR1955
    Super Moderator
    • Mar 2011
    • 3355

    MM3 -- Effectiveness of Repetition

    Guys:

    MM-2 got good response in terms of prioritizing essential training. I proposed an initial training priority on 'training the eye to see and finger to move' (conditional reflex) over position and others an initial training priority on position development over 'training the eyes to see and finger to move'.

    The logic for both arguments was also interesting. My basis is that a person will never get into a perfect position so must depend on trigger moving when eyes perceive good. The positional priority argument basically stated that a guy will have a much better chance of attaining and sustaining a good sight picture if his position is good so initial emphasis must be on position.

    Either way, the result will be repetition of both a physical and mental task. The physical task will be position and the mental task will entail conditioning the finger to move when the eye sees a good sight picture.

    So, here are some questions about marksmanship training that are somewhat generic but also deal with retention of skills via memory. View this in terms of the reality of life which states that unless your income depends on your marksmanship ability, you have limited time and more limited resources. Make it real please.

    Understand that essentially people go through a couple of phases when learning a motorskill such as marksmanship. You all can look at Fitts and Posner (1967) and their phases of psychomotor development as a decent starting point. They posit that there are three phases. Cognitive where the individual must think as he does. Associative where the individual is more able to quickly assess his performance in action and regulate in order to do the task more quickly, smoothly, and precisely. Finally there is the Autonomous stage where the individual does these things without using much if any conscious thought. I do not think anyone gets into this final stage but rather the very best are able to focus attention on one specific thing at a critical time and are more able to quickly regulate their actions to make a physical act as perfect as possible.

    My goal when training people is to assess their development level and if they are still held in more of a cognitive stage, do those things necessary to shift them to the Associative stage. This is because I believe it necessary to train people to train themselves.

    So, you get someone new to shooting who wants to learn. You have no clue how much BS the individual has been filled with but most likely they have been convinced that shooting is hard to do and requires a huge outlay of time to be consistent. However, he or she is in good physical condition so can get into various shooting positions without much effort, and they do not need glasses or contacts to see.

    You want to shift them from the cognitive stage to the associative stage of motor skills development. You have five training sessions with them. Each session can go up to six hours and are done on five consecutive Saturdays. They are able to shoot once during the week for about three hours. The range has a 100 yard open area where you can put paper targets and can move and shoot with another 200 yards yards of field fire where you can put in steel if you want.

    Questions for you all:

    What shooting discipline?

    What tasks to perform?

    In what priority?

    How many repetitions?

    At what intervals?

    How will he measure success and progress?

    LR1955
    Last edited by LR1955; 12-10-2011, 03:05 PM.
  • bwaites
    Moderator
    • Mar 2011
    • 4445

    #2
    Sorry I missed this post initially. This is an intriguing question. I am in the process of doing this with the 5 most important women in my life, (my wife, 2 daughters, and 2 daughters in law.)

    I've been trying to work up a plan for them to learn handgun defense, so this process is important to me. I'm very interested to learn what others think are critical training issues, because I need to transfer them into the handgun world.

    Comment

    • LR1955
      Super Moderator
      • Mar 2011
      • 3355

      #3
      Originally posted by bwaites View Post
      Sorry I missed this post initially. This is an intriguing question. I am in the process of doing this with the 5 most important women in my life, (my wife, 2 daughters, and 2 daughters in law.)

      I've been trying to work up a plan for them to learn handgun defense, so this process is important to me. I'm very interested to learn what others think are critical training issues, because I need to transfer them into the handgun world.
      Bill:

      From the standpoint of civilians defending themselves with deadly force -- might as well start with the legal side. You may find that the legal issues will dictate what you will train and how.

      BTW -- are they motivated because they want to or because you or your son want them to learn? That will play a role in terms of time spent for each training session, standards of performance, and skills retention.

      LR55

      Comment


      • #4
        I like the idea of conditional reflex. But is it not like practicing?

        Comment

        • LR1955
          Super Moderator
          • Mar 2011
          • 3355

          #5
          Originally posted by vanessar View Post
          I like the idea of conditional reflex. But is it not like practicing?
          Practicing develops it.

          Comment

          • montana
            Chieftain
            • Jun 2011
            • 3209

            #6
            Every person is different when it comes to muscle memory. Learning to properly pull a trigger when the sights are lined up under stress of combat or competition in a split second and being aware of ones surrounding all in the same time is the goal of all shooting abilities. I have learned that a students emotional state can help or inhibit their progress in learning. My wife took a long time to become proficient with a firearm where my daughter took to it like a duck to water. My daughter was raised around firearms and shooting where she would help pick up brass and help score at shooting matches. My wife was never exposed to shooting when she was young and had a natural fear that only slow, patient instruction and practice over came her fear of shooting. Make the practice sessions fun for the students with encouragement and accomplishments, and they will come back for more. Get too rigid with certain students and they will never return ," know your students".
            You are right on with these .Questions for you all:

            What shooting discipline?

            What tasks to perform?

            In what priority?

            How many repetitions?

            At what intervals?

            How will he measure success and progress?

            Comment

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