ATF Bans Barnes Banded Solid Bullets

[Whelenon]

Obviously. the powers that be are trying to back door bureaucratic restriction. There's a larger politcal agenda going on here and if we don't respond they win by default. I agree with LRRPF52, we need to contact our duly elected officials and let them know this is bullsh*t. Everyone reading this thread should be emailing the WH, both your Senators and your Congressman at minimum. If you don't you got nothing to complain about.

[vanguard138]

How.about a fact based statement from one of the experts in the group that can be copied and sent to our representatives?

[sgt_murf]

Here is the actual Law that needs repealing or parts there of the verbiage brass in 17 (B)(i) or 17 (A) needs the definition of ammunition being assembled not components as listed

-CITE-
18 USC Sec. 921 01/07/2011

-EXPCITE-
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS

-HEAD-
Sec. 921. Definitions


(17)(A) The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge
cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in
any firearm.
(B) The term "armor piercing ammunition" means -
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a
handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence
of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of
tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or
depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber
designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a
weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the
projectile.

(C) The term "armor piercing ammunition" does not include shotgun
shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations
for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target
shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is
primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other
projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is
intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge
used in an oil and gas well perforating device.
(18) The term "Attorney General" means the Attorney General of
the United States (!1)

(19) The term "published ordinance" means a published law of any
political subdivision of a State which the Attorney General
determines to be relevant to the enforcement of this chapter and
which is contained on a list compiled by the Attorney General,
which list shall be published in the Federal Register, revised
annually, and furnished to each licensee under this chapter.
(20) The term "crime punishable by imprisonment for a term
exceeding one year" does not include -
(A) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust
violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other
similar offenses relating to the regulation of business
practices, or
(B) any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a
misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years
or less.

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C44.txt

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/DOJ-ATF-Firearms-Technology-Branch-Letter-06-30-11.pdf

[sgt_murf]

Solid brass handgun bullets are defined by Federal law (the 1968 Gun Control Act?) as AP ammunition.

It's Federal law, folks. Your anger should be directed at Congress. The ATF is only doing their job by enforcing the law.

What's sad is that it might never have attracted ATF attention if a company called Elite Ammo had not been making similar bullets and blatantly advertising them for their ability to defeat soft body armor.

right Stanc Law amended in 2011 January 7th (USC 18). And yes, Congress does deserve angry phone calls over this another root of the problem is that manufacturers are producing pistol (AR Based) in 6.5 G which is what is nailing the 6.5 Solids ( I am not sure if anyone else is producing a pistol in 6.5 caliber which will also be nail in the coffin). The letter (june 2011) that started it all is based on a determination made by ATF based on elite's statements. Basically USC 18 is amended to state that components, primers, projectiles etc are ammunition even separated.

[LRRPF52]

The ATF, which has no Constitutional foundation for existence and absolutely no authority to enforce any laws (especially related to infringing upon the Second Amendment which is emphatically defined in the 2nd Amendment restricting Congress from such activity), has zero business regulating or issuing rulings on anything firearms related. The only reason they continue to conduct themselves as the illegal criminal enterprise that they are is because we have been allowing them to do so without any checks.

If you look at the illegal wording in USC Sec. 921, armor piercing ammunition means any and all ammunition components to be used in a a handgun made of all the metals that are used in projectiles except lead.

There is no need to get sucked into the minutia of a legal argument of how much they are infringing on our inalienable and God-given rights as human beings, the only fact that matters is that they are doing it under the guise of incrementalism, and they need to be stopped cold in their criminal tracks. The argument they are basing these rulings on is that just a little infringement on the 2nd Amendment is ok because..."We don't want armor-piercing ammunition available to anyone, now do we?"

"A reasonable person wouldn't need armor-piercing ammunition for their handguns, so it should be regulated." That is the argument. Only problem is, a reasonable person can have whatever arms they feel necessary to defend themselves against body-armor wearing thugs, especially when those thugs are being supplied by the ATF themselves, or ARE the ATF. They need to be slashed before any defense cuts are considered.

The ATF's budget could keep one Infantry Brigade paid for at full optempo, and that Infantry brigade would actually have positive results to show year after year. The ATF has no such record, the opposite, as a matter of fact, when you look at the countless fiasco's they have initiated at the loss of much innocent life, businesses, and who knows what else, which continues to this day.

They need to go away. Nit-picking it to death is only falling into their trap, as you give them legitimacy if you accept anything they have to say or declare.

[ericv]

A family member of mine is a deputy director of one of the homeland security agencies in DC and he says the ATF is a bunch of clowns.

[LRRPF52]

Every LEO I have worked with or discussed this with says the same, except for maybe their bomb squad. I say shit em down and vet the bomb squad for work under the JCTTF.

[BjornF16]

The ATF, which has no Constitutional foundation for existence ...

+1

[sgt_murf]

A family member of mine is a deputy director of one of the homeland security agencies in DC and he says the ATF is a bunch of clowns.

OK guys they do serve a Purpose .. they are a bad example of professional LEO. That part of DOJ needs to be modified to AT alcohol and Tobacco. Let the local Authorities enforce the laws at the local level just my 2cents

[LRRPF52]

Why do we need a Federal Gubm't agency with a multi-billion dollar budget to regulate alcohol and tobacco?

[Mutt]

Alcohol and Tobacco doesn't need to be regulated. No need for any agency.

[sgt_murf]

Alcohol and Tobacco doesn't need to be regulated. No need for any agency.

well those three agents total for the agency would be about right though

[hm2 clark]

One of the guys who WAS running for president wanted to get rid of hidden taxes. I think that means that if he had gotten elected prices of Alcohol tobacco and firearms would have gone way down. And a government agecy that sells firearms to drug runners would be out of buisness....Nah, lower taxes and safer streets just isnt the American way any longer.

[Clod Stomper]

The ATF, which has no Constitutional foundation for existence and absolutely no authority to enforce any laws (especially related to infringing upon the Second Amendment which is emphatically defined in the 2nd Amendment restricting Congress from such activity), has zero business regulating or issuing rulings on anything firearms related. The only reason they continue to conduct themselves as the illegal criminal enterprise that they are is because we have been allowing them to do so without any checks.

If you look at the illegal wording in USC Sec. 921, armor piercing ammunition means any and all ammunition components to be used in a a handgun made of all the metals that are used in projectiles except lead.

There is no need to get sucked into the minutia of a legal argument of how much they are infringing on our inalienable and God-given rights as human beings, the only fact that matters is that they are doing it under the guise of incrementalism, and they need to be stopped cold in their criminal tracks. The argument they are basing these rulings on is that just a little infringement on the 2nd Amendment is ok because..."We don't want armor-piercing ammunition available to anyone, now do we?"

"A reasonable person wouldn't need armor-piercing ammunition for their handguns, so it should be regulated." That is the argument. Only problem is, a reasonable person can have whatever arms they feel necessary to defend themselves against body-armor wearing thugs, especially when those thugs are being supplied by the ATF themselves, or ARE the ATF. They need to be slashed before any defense cuts are considered.

The ATF's budget could keep one Infantry Brigade paid for at full optempo, and that Infantry brigade would actually have positive results to show year after year. The ATF has no such record, the opposite, as a matter of fact, when you look at the countless fiasco's they have initiated at the loss of much innocent life, businesses, and who knows what else, which continues to this day.

They need to go away. Nit-picking it to death is only falling into their trap, as you give them legitimacy if you accept anything they have to say or declare.

Rather than going on a rant of my own, I'll just say "Yes. I'll second what he said." Much better than I could have spoken, too.

Will

[LRRPF52]