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Thread: 6.5 grendel brass

  1. #1
    Grimmy
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    6.5 grendel brass

    Ok still waiting on upper. But have a question. Is making brass out of 7.62x39 worth while or not. Had a bolt gun and still have a 16inch sks paratrooper. (now currently regreting letting the bolt gun go could of had a bolt Grendel) Only shoot steel case stuff out of the SKS. So I have some brass laying around is it worth converting or not?

  2. #2
    Moderator bwaites's Avatar
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    Totally dependent on how much your time and effort is worth.

    Most people did the conversion when Grendel brass was hard to come by, now that it is readily available from multiple sources, most believe it isn't worth the hassle. When you figure in the time and components involved to do so, its a break even proposition at best.
    ”You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

  3. #3
    LRRPF52
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    I have a bunch of 7.62x39 fire form loads done up from maybe 2 years ago, and I still have zero reason to mess with them. I don't even have a reason to mess with my pulled PPU brass either, especially since it's large rifle primer. I have so many boxes of Lapua Grendel brass, that it makes zero sense to mess with anything else, and all my brass has been given to me by friends, including my first box of Grendel brass.

    I would have to work up a different load with the PPU brass, but it's an option for hunting brass that might be sacrificed in the field.

  4. #4
    Chieftain txgunner00's Avatar
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    I currently fire form with sub-sonic loads then use the formed brass for hunting / plinking loads where recovery is unlikely. I don't use it for target loads or where I want to maximize performance.

  5. #5
    Bwild97
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    The hardest part of fire forming 7.62x39 into Grendel brass for me, is the expense of the of the projectile. There just isn't a projectile under $19.00/100. And I have about 1500 7.62x39 cases to re-size and fireform. If you plan on reforming brass for your Grendel, get a set of 7.62x39 dies (or just a sizer die) as well or you will ruin alot of the brass trying to re-size it straight to the 6.5mm diameter. Use the 7.62 sizer die to deprime and bring the mouth of the case to a near perfect circumference. You will not need to full stroke with the 7.62 die so there is no need to lube the cases for either of the sizing operations; only after you have fired the 7.62 case into a Grendel case will you need to lube for full length sizing, and every time then on till you discard the case. Its not a difficult task, just time consuming, and in the end; I feel for me, that it is worth the effort! I have a batch of 7.62 cases on their 5th reload!


    PS: Stay away from Winchester Large Rifle Primers, the cups are very soft! I have used S&B LR and Wolf .308 primers with good results!! Also when Fireforming 7.62 cases use a powder charge close to or just under the starting weights and seat a smidge deeper, I use 25gn of Benchmark and seat Sierra 120gn Spitzers to 2.225" COAL.

  6. #6
    Moderator bwaites's Avatar
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    You can use a plug of cream of wheat, or something else similar to fireform, but unless you have lots of brass, its still is a borderline effort.
    ”You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

  7. #7
    Warrior
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    Grim Ditto what every one else said plus the case volume is about 2 grains less than the 6.5 Grendel case. In the end you will have a case that won't last very long and if you do the math they will be more expensive than the AA or Lapua cases. I did it at a time when there were no Grendel cases available and got an exceptional deal on 400 brand new 762x39 win cases. You should really avoid once fired cases for reforming unless you anneal them before sizing. I have some of those reformed cases on their 6th reload but the primer pockets are getting loose.
    Last edited by rasp65; 04-10-2012 at 10:48 PM. Reason: punctuation

  8. #8
    Warrior
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    One more thing if you use the cream of wheat you will get a lot of crap in your gas system. I have used this method while fireforming other cases and could not believe the amount of flame broiled CoW was left in the barrel. I would not want that in my gas system.

  9. #9
    LRRPF52
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    With the availability of Lapua brass, especially from AA at their prices, there is little reason to mess with fire-forming 7.62x39 brass. The time investment equals higher cost to me, since time is so valuable. Then looking at the longevity I get from Lapua cases, and the law of diminishing returns takes over.

  10. #10
    Chieftain sneaky one's Avatar
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    If you can find good 7.62 x 39 brass, say- fed., Imi, rem., win., sell & bell., and some cheapo--gun show bullets-save them all for the future, tuck them away. Try to use the good stuff now, enjoy the best. If you lose 1-2 Lap-AA per deer hunt season = oh well,, $1.00 gone., In the case of say,-- txgunner-- I would use the cheapo stuff now- = overrun with pigs, and not enuff hep to cull the herd long enough to make a dent in population there . I would fireform always-with cheap ingreeds.- to make up some Grrrr. brass.. I'll ask the atk boys here if they could donate some brass & bullets to the hog control issue.. hmmm.

  11. #11
    Chieftain Variable's Avatar
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    I put away a couple thousand pieces of IMI 7.62x39 brass one time when the price was right and grendel brass was in thin supply. I haven't touched it and likely won't unless things ever get real tight. I have a bunch of new Lapua brass and a whole pile of once fired wolf to go through first. If I just wasn't too lazy to reload it all...LOL

    If the price of fire forming with bullets was an obstacle I'd look at the hydro forming process that some people were using a while back.

  12. #12
    Grimmy
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    Thanks for the input. Since I form most of my 300acc brass it had me thinking. Three more gun shows then got the summer off to shoot. I have some 7.62 might form some just to say I tried don't know. I have 150 hornady cases and 100 rounds of hornady and wolf so just need the upper. Bill's posts makes it sound like it could be soon.

  13. #13
    Chieftain txgunner00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasp65 View Post
    One more thing if you use the cream of wheat you will get a lot of crap in your gas system. I have used this method while fireforming other cases and could not believe the amount of flame broiled CoW was left in the barrel. I would not want that in my gas system.
    I rotate my gas block to block the gas port when using the COW method.

    Here's an old thread with some good info.

    http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...2x39-cases....
    Last edited by txgunner00; 04-11-2012 at 02:54 PM.

  14. #14
    Chieftain txgunner00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bwild97 View Post
    The hardest part of fire forming 7.62x39 into Grendel brass for me, is the expense of the of the projectile. There just isn't a projectile under $19.00/100. And I have about 1500 7.62x39 cases to re-size and fireform. If you plan on reforming brass for your Grendel, get a set of 7.62x39 dies (or just a sizer die) as well or you will ruin alot of the brass trying to re-size it straight to the 6.5mm diameter. Use the 7.62 sizer die to deprime and bring the mouth of the case to a near perfect circumference. You will not need to full stroke with the 7.62 die so there is no need to lube the cases for either of the sizing operations; only after you have fired the 7.62 case into a Grendel case will you need to lube for full length sizing, and every time then on till you discard the case. Its not a difficult task, just time consuming, and in the end; I feel for me, that it is worth the effort! I have a batch of 7.62 cases on their 5th reload!


    PS: Stay away from Winchester Large Rifle Primers, the cups are very soft! I have used S&B LR and Wolf .308 primers with good results!! Also when Fireforming 7.62 cases use a powder charge close to or just under the starting weights and seat a smidge deeper, I use 25gn of Benchmark and seat Sierra 120gn Spitzers to 2.225" COAL.
    The cost of the bullets is a big advantage to using sub-sonic loads for a dual purpose fire forming and shooting load. This way nothing is wasted. Using non fire formed brass for sub-sonics also has the advantage of increasing load density and improving burn consistency. Accuracy has also been a little better for me with non-FF over FF. The one con to the load is it doesn't have enough pressure to form nice, tight corners on the shoulder. However, these square up after full length sizing to nearly the same as full pressure formed brass. I measured the water capacity of sub-sonic formed brass and compared it to full pressure formed brass and on average there was less than .1 gr difference. Not enough to make a difference in performance subsequent loadings at all.

  15. #15
    jkingrph
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    Quote Originally Posted by Variable View Post
    I put away a couple thousand pieces of IMI 7.62x39 brass one time when the price was right and grendel brass was in thin supply. I haven't touched it and likely won't unless things ever get real tight. I have a bunch of new Lapua brass and a whole pile of once fired wolf to go through first. If I just wasn't too lazy to reload
    I did the same thing, resized 2000 rounds of IMI 7.62 and have fire formed a few hundred so far. Actually for casual, fun shooting I find nothing wrong with shooting fire forming loads. So far they have been cycling my action fine. and accuracy is ok, much better than minute of coke can at 100 yards, probably more like 1 1/4-1 1/2".

  16. #16
    Warrior
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    I don't know if it is true but I heard that the IMI brass was made by Lapua.

  17. #17
    Chieftain txgunner00's Avatar
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    That would be interesting if it were true. I always thought IMI/TZZ brass was made in Israel.

  18. #18
    Moderator bwaites's Avatar
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    I'm betting LRRPF52 knows or can find out. BUT....I thought IMI was made in Israel.
    ”You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

  19. #19
    LRRPF52
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    Lapua has recently been targeted by leftists in Finland for supporting the US with "hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition." They follow this with references to US killing civilians, etc.

    One of the chief executives at Lapua responded thusly:

    "I'm offended by the gross errors and tone of this clear lack of journalistic integrity. To suggest that we have supplied the US military with hundreds of thousands of rounds of quality Finnish ammunition is absolutely preposterous.......



    We have sold them MILLIONS!"
    True story. I'll have to find out if they're involved in IMI 7.62x39 brass. Lapua has a lot of pans in the fire, and they know how to be discreet about their business with customers who require it.
    Last edited by LRRPF52; 04-12-2012 at 06:41 PM.

  20. #20
    Moderator bwaites's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRRPF52 View Post
    Lapua has recently been targeted by leftists in Finland for supporting the US with "hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition." They follow this with references to US killing civilians, etc.

    One of the chief executives at Lapua responded thusly:



    True story. I'll have to find out if they're involved in IMI 7.62x39 brass. Lapua has a lot of pans in the fire, and they know how to be discreet about their business with customers who require it.
    Heck yes! And we appreciate it too!!
    ”You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

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