All these other threads are military related, I haven't seen a single law enforcement thread. Therefore, I would like to start one. I'm hoping you guys are willing to discuss this. To start off, I think the long range ability of this cartridge, combined with light weight and recoil, could mostly replace .308 rifles currently in police/SWAT armories.
I agree. Improved terminal ballistics over 5.56, interchangeable parts with their carbines, lighter recoil, etc. The vast majority of law enforcement sharpshooting scenarios are under 100 yds. .308 is not necessary IMO.
My thought exactly, except for the extremely rare occasion where some kind of IMMENSELY THICK barrier must be penetrated, .308 should be scrapped.
I'm not sure how much of a discussion is possible, but here are my thoughts. Yes, 6.5 Grendel would seem well suited to LE use.Originally Posted by Steyr94
Nearly all engagement distances for LE are very short range. With expanding bullets, lethality/incapacitation ought to be more than adequate.
The lesser recoil (compared to .308 Win) would enhance the ability of police marksmen to make precision shots, vital in hostage situations.
In contrast to military use, ammo load is not an issue, so 5.56 carbines and SBRs could also be Grendelized, thereby allowing one caliber to replace two (5.56 and 7.62).
Next question?
Has such a barrier ever been encountered in LE operations?
Is there any reason to think that such a barrier could not be defeated by 6.5 Grendel?
Stopping vehicles is the only really think I can think of a 6.5 G be just as effective. A 308 is not going to penetrate an engine block anyway.
Glass penetration is something looked at and relied on with the .308, although a hostage scenario in a bank proved fatal for many hostages after an LE shooter tried to hit the perpetrator through the window. It would be important to do side-by-side tests with Grendel loads and .308 to see if there are any short-range advantages with the Grendel and certain bullet weights, versus the .308. I think most agencies have addressed this with bullet construction, at least for the ones who have addressed it at all.
Yes, bullet construction is critical to performance on barriers.
One of the original feathers in the Grendel cartridge's cap was it's performance on glass rated to stop 7.62 while at a Blackwater event-- IIRC. Bill A. Punched a 144 Lapua right on through, and the gun world noticed.LOL While the heaviest bullets aren't the Grendels cup of tea for long range, BC is king for penetration in some scenarios, and the Grendel can definitely bring that to the table....
Well said Stan. I couldn't add anything other than that I wish my agency would figure all of that out and switch me over from 5.56... While I agree with LRRPF52 that 5.56 is generally quite adequate for military small arms use, I personally would still opt for the Grendel any day for LE. Ammo load is much less of a factor for LE, so I'd opt to bring more smackdown to the table given the opportunity. Of course, the thought of free Grendel ammo at work might have something to do with it too...LOLI'm not sure how much of a discussion is possible, but here are my thoughts. Yes, 6.5 Grendel would seem well suited to LE use.
Nearly all engagement distances for LE are very short range. With expanding bullets, lethality/incapacitation ought to be more than adequate.
The lesser recoil (compared to .308 Win) would enhance the ability of police marksmen to make precision shots, vital in hostage situations.
In contrast to military use, ammo load is not an issue, so 5.56 carbines and SBRs could also be Grendelized, thereby allowing one caliber to replace two (5.56 and 7.62).
Next question?
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