Ammunition Loaded from Once-Fired Brass Sticking

[jasonleevandyke]

I am trying to reload some PPU (Wolf) brass and am having a heck of a problem. First of all, this is brass from factory ammunition that performed flawlessly in my rifle - so at least I know that the chamber is not the problem. I am using Lee dies that I purchased from Alexander Arms and attempted first to load 120 gr AMAX ammunition with 8208XBR powder and CCI BR-2 primers. I have since heard that this is far from an ideal load - but that is not relevant for now.

I checked the case length on all of the once-fired brass and it appears to be within SAAMI. The problem is that none of the reloaded ammunition would chamber. Even though it was well within SAAMI, the bolt stuck like glue (I should note that the upper is from Alexander Arms and has a Shilen match grade barrel). After verifying that all of the loads were under 2.245 as the book requires, I measured the Wolf ammo that had no problems and found it to be between 2.218 and 2.223. I reset my bullet seater die for that length and tried again. Same problem. At this point I am angry and drive back to the store thinking the bullet could somehow be the problem. I try 129 gr SST. Same exact issue. I double check my entire press setup. All of the dies are setup correctly.

I am thinking that my full length resizing die could be out of spec and I have sent for a Redding die. If that does not solve the problem, I am not sure what will. Can anyone give me some advice or point me to a thread where this has been addressed?

[ricsmall]

there are some threads addressing this issue, though I havent looked for them. use the search feature, as it usually gets good info. But to address your problem, from what I remember reading, youre gonna need to bump the shoulder back a little more. If you have any sized brass thats not loaded, try to chamber it. If it wont chamber, then adjust your sizing die down until you get the brass to chamber( go in small increments). Even if you get the lee die to work, +1 on the redding. Ideally, to squeeze the most accuracy out of your rifle, the redding 's' type bushing dies are great.

richard

[Von Gruff]

And not all shell holders are created equal either. Just as there is a min - max criteria for the chamber reamer spec there is also the same tolerence in the dies and shell holders. It is not unusual to have to dress the top of the shell holder for some combinations of shell holder - die - chamber. In fact so well known is the sometimes problem and that some need - want to bump the shoulder more than others that I believe Redding has different depth of shell holders to allow for this.

As ricsmall says, try a piece of resized brass and make sure the ram has the shell holder hard against the press then dress the shell holder by 2 thou at a time and try again. If all else is right then this should adress the problem

Von Gruff.

[ricsmall]

thanks gruff, I didnt think to mention the redding competition shell holder set to change the bump.

[mseric]

I highly doubt your sizing die is out of spec. Possible, but not likely. More likely you do not have it set up correctly. How did you set up your FL die?

Without a case gauge, you need to go "generic". That is to raise the ram, screw the FL sizing die into the press until it touches the shell holder. Lower the ram. Screw the FL sizing die into the press 1/4 to 1/3 more, then lock it down.

Take some fired brass and set up you FL dies as above until the brass case alone (no bullet,primer,powder) chambers and extracts with ease. Once the brass chambers then you can move on to loading bullets.

Another cause could be your seating die, make sure you have it set up correctly and not over-crimping causing t5he case to buckle.

Take a sized case that fits into your chamber. Place it into the shell holder. Raise the ram. Screw the sizing die into the press until to feel it make contact with the case. Back the seating die out of the press at least one full turn and lock it down. Now you can adjust your OAL with the seating stem.

[jasonleevandyke]

Ok this is wierd. I did what everyone here has recommended. The brass (not loaded) is chambering and extracting without any issues. It is only when I use loaded ammunition that the weapon is now chambering rounds, but excessive force is required to extract loaded ammunition. I double checked my bullet seater die and my factory crimp die. Neither are crushing the cases. Now I am thinking it is a headspacing issue so, if switching to the Redding resizing die does not solve the problem, I am going to try a 264 LBC small base die. If all else fails, I will order that competition shellholder set from Redding. I don't know what to do if none of that works.

[sneaky one]

Try a different set of calipers-are the bullets showing marks on them? Sounds like your reloads are too long, oal.

[ChellieWiles]

are you cleaning the case lube off the cartridge after you finish reloading the rounds. Also, if the bullet seater die is down too far on the case while seating the bullet you can cause the die to push on the brass starting at the case mouth which, in turn, deforms the case mouth and causing sticking loadings, mag feeds and extrations. I've did this a few times years ago with my .223 ammo and had the same exact problems. Any pics of the reloads that are sticking?

[MrDraco]

Try a different set of calipers-are the bullets showing marks on them? Sounds like your reloads are too long, oal.

I agree. If the rounds chamber but won't extract a loaded round then they are loaded too long and your o-give is hitting the rifling. If you're still using the 120 Amax then this is the cause. They are too fat and require them to be set deeper then most other bullets.

[Drifter]

this is brass from factory ammunition that performed flawlessly in my rifle - so at least I know that the chamber is not the problem.

At the risk of stating the obvious...

If factory ammo works okay, the issue is with your reloaded ammo.


Different equipment will not necessarily solve the problem if everything isn't set up correctly.

As others have mentioned, make sure your sizing die is bumping the shoulder back appropriately, make sure your seating die isn't too deep and crushing the case, and make sure your loaded cartridge length isn't excessively long for the bullet being used.

If you still have some factory ammo onhand, take measurements all over and compare to your reloaded cartridges, as this might help to see where the problem is. Also, load a dummy round (no powder or primer), color it with a black Sharpie pen (or equivalent), then chamber it. There should be tell-tale smudges showing which part of the cartridge is meeting resistance. (Some nicks and marks will be normal.)

[ricsmall]

sounds like the coal is too long. +1 with drifter, color the projectile and see if there are marks from the lands. there is a sticky on here for comparisons of the different bullets and the distance from lands for each one. may not fit your rifle but give you an idea of comparison

[jasonleevandyke]

sounds like the coal is too long. +1 with drifter, color the projectile and see if there are marks from the lands. there is a sticky on here for comparisons of the different bullets and the distance from lands for each one. may not fit your rifle but give you an idea of comparison

Well, I solved the problem. It actually was the Lee dies I was using. They were not resetting the shoulder enough to reliably function in my weapon. There was actually a set of Hornady dies at Cabelas and I snatched them up for $32.00, set up the full length resizing die, loaded five rounds, and they functioned flawlessly.

Incidentally, the COAL on the 120 AMAX went from 2.245 all the way down to 2.218 and still exhibited the same problems. With the new dies, I loaded five rounds of AMAX to 2.225 and they functioned without fail. Load was 120 Amax in front of 28.2 gr of IMR 8208 XBR.

I am now investing in one of those nifty Hornady bullet pullers that use the collet in hopes of salvaging about 400 rounds of loaded ammo that is more or less worthless. I am told that I can probably get some of the ones I loaded to 2.180 to fire, but that I risk a KB since the bullet is seated so much deeper than it should be.

[Variable]

Well, I solved the problem. It actually was the Lee dies I was using. They were not resetting the shoulder enough to reliably function in my weapon. There was actually a set of Hornady dies at Cabelas and I snatched them up for $32.00, set up the full length resizing die, loaded five rounds, and they functioned flawlessly.

Incidentally, the COAL on the 120 AMAX went from 2.245 all the way down to 2.218 and still exhibited the same problems. With the new dies, I loaded five rounds of AMAX to 2.225 and they functioned without fail. Load was 120 Amax in front of 28.2 gr of IMR 8208 XBR.

I am now investing in one of those nifty Hornady bullet pullers that use the collet in hopes of salvaging about 400 rounds of loaded ammo that is more or less worthless. I am told that I can probably get some of the ones I loaded to 2.180 to fire, but that I risk a KB since the bullet is seated so much deeper than it should be.

If that's the case, then I don't think seating depth had anything to do with it. More likely your Lee sizing die wasn't setting the shoulder back far enough. As mentioned above, you either needed to screw your sizer die down farther, or if it was already at max, then you needed to stone off some material from the top of your shell holder to allow the case to be run in further.

Either way, since you already bought other dies I guess you are covered.

Question to others with bushing dies--- If the OP's true problem was lack of shoulder setback, then could a Redding bushing sizer die be used without the bushing to just set back the shoulder on his already loaded rounds? I'm the lazy type, and if they were mine I'd rather do that than pull 400 rounds manually.... I have no experience with the bushing dies, so I have no idea if that'd work.

[ricsmall]

seems that someone mentioned this a while back in another thread. I think they suggested machining a cheap die out just to set shoulders back, may work with the bushing die though.

[Drifter]

Question to others with bushing dies--- If the OP's true problem was lack of shoulder setback, then could a Redding bushing sizer die be used without the bushing to just set back the shoulder on his already loaded rounds? I'm the lazy type, and if they were mine I'd rather do that than pull 400 rounds manually.... I have no experience with the bushing dies, so I have no idea if that'd work.

I think it would work, but not sure that it's safe. Don't think I would personally risk it.