Pacific Northwest Grendel/Alexander Arms meeting

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • bwaites
    Moderator
    • Mar 2011
    • 4445

    Pacific Northwest Grendel/Alexander Arms meeting

    We are considering a series of meetings around the country to allow people to meet the staff and affiliates of Alexander Arms.

    If there is interest, we might do so this fall, probably in September, and the Kennewick/Richland/Pasco area has been suggested as a possible meeting place.

    This would allow northern Utah, Idaho, Western Montana, Oregon and Washington shooters to all have less than a 12 hour drive to the meeting place. Northern Californians could also drive it in 12 hours or less from most places.

    Is there sufficient interest?
  • infidel470

    #2
    I`ll be there.

    Comment


    • #3
      Bwaites,
      Being new to the forum may I ask just what is your relationship with Alexander Arms?

      Comment

      • bwaites
        Moderator
        • Mar 2011
        • 4445

        #4
        That's certainly a fair and reasonable question.

        I live in Central Washington State, and I'm a long way from Radford, Virginia!

        I have moderated the Grendel forums for about 3 years now. I also recently started helping AA with their AR15.com forum.

        I'm a long time Grendel/Beowulf fan who has developed a friendship with Bill Alexander and some of the others at AA, and have visited the factory. I actually got to see the first drawings of the HMR rifle, probably before anyone but people within the company, more than 3 1/2 years ago when I visited.

        Prior to this spring, I had no official connection. Starting this spring, though, I will be a non-paid shooting representative for AA, shooting a Grendel Sniper Rifle at F Class and other prone and/or tactical matches in the Pacific Northwest when I can get to them. (I'm a long way from being able to compete at a high level, but I enjoy trying!)

        I'm sort of an unofficial facilitator, I guess!

        Comment


        • #5
          Sounds great and I'd like to attend but September is probably out for me. Elk season comes before most everything for me.

          Comment


          • #6
            Sounds great,but i bet theres more grendels in the east...

            Comment


            • #7
              Although going to population centers would seem to make more sense, there is another thought. Mr. Alexander probably has records showing where his products are selling well, and poorly. Going to areas where the Grendels sell well is much like preaching to the choir. It might make more sense for Mr. Alexander to show his products in areas where the Grendels are NOT selling so well.

              If people started showing up with Grendel rifles at various matches in those areas, the rifle's performance would certainly get noticed.

              When other shooters saw how well my Grendel shot at precision rifle matches, they asked about the rifle/cartridge. They didn't know I was using a Grendel, and wondered how I got such performance out of an AR15. That gave me the opportunity to tell them about the Grendel. Most shooters had heard about the Grendel, but until a few of us started actually showing up at matches with them, no one had actually seen one before.

              Comment


              • #8
                Looking forward to it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sounds like it would be fun for all. Maybe I could try some real long range shots. The range here in Fall City is only 200 yards.

                  Comment

                  • longdayjake

                    #10
                    I don't know if it matters to AA how well the Grendel is selling in some areas. It seems they are selling all that they possibly can.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm already sold on both the Grendel cartridge, and on Alexander Arms as a company. So my attendance would depend on what the meeting is all about. If the meeting is to meet Mr. Alexander, he has already made a very favorable impression on me. So meeting him wouldn't change anything there.

                      If the meeting had some symposiums, classes, training, or other things I could learn from, then I would certainly be interested.

                      Comment

                      • LR1955
                        Super Moderator
                        • Mar 2011
                        • 3355

                        #12
                        Originally posted by noone View Post
                        Although going to population centers would seem to make more sense, there is another thought. Mr. Alexander probably has records showing where his products are selling well, and poorly. Going to areas where the Grendels sell well is much like preaching to the choir. It might make more sense for Mr. Alexander to show his products in areas where the Grendels are NOT selling so well.

                        If people started showing up with Grendel rifles at various matches in those areas, the rifle's performance would certainly get noticed.

                        When other shooters saw how well my Grendel shot at precision rifle matches, they asked about the rifle/cartridge. They didn't know I was using a Grendel, and wondered how I got such performance out of an AR15. That gave me the opportunity to tell them about the Grendel. Most shooters had heard about the Grendel, but until a few of us started actually showing up at matches with them, no one had actually seen one before.
                        Noone:

                        It is not a good choice for NRA High Power or F Class if your intent is to win the match. Mostly because of its anemic velocities but also because frankly -- there are many other cartridges more consistently precise that can be shot from an AR-15.

                        And it hasn't seemed to be the cartridge of choice for formal action shooting sports which at first surprised me but after the third or forth bolt lug shearing and continual problems with CP magazines, it is no longer a surprise. You can make MPF but your bolt won't last long and I guarantee you at least two failures to feed / function per 300 rounds fired, which is unacceptable if you are a competitive shooter. No matter how fast you are, it is still unacceptable and your chances of losing a match go way up if you have one malfunction during a match of these sorts.

                        The reason why it isn't popular at formal precision shooting events is because guys have shown up with them and the other shooters have seen the results. True competitive shooting means you maximize your tools for success. Shooting a Grendel at 300 or 600 in winds is not maximizing your chances of success.

                        LR1955

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          LR1955,

                          I think there will always be better and lesser cartridges, just as is the case with sports teams, professional fighters, auto racing, and so on. A poorly built rifle in any caliber will hamper performance. You are absoutely correct about malfunctions making it almost impossible to win against rifles that don't malfunction. If shooters of equal performance compete and one has a malfunction, while the other shooter's rifle works perfectly, the outcome is not in doubt (at least not to you and I).

                          The Army marksmanship unit recently found that if they compared Grendels shooting a 123 grain bullet against a 30 caliber 123 grain bullet at the same velocity, the 30 caliber rifle has less recoil, and this helped them win more matches. Obviously, the 30 caliber 123 grain bullet won't have the long distance performance of the 6.5mm 123 grain bullet because of the vastly superior ballistic coefficient of the 6.5mm bullet. However, the Army teams found that the 30 caliber bullet is adequate out to around 300 yards where the majority of action type/practical rifle shooting takes place.

                          I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have no disagreement with your statement. I have used my Grendels to win at both practical rifle, and precision rifle matches. Probably because my Grendels didn't malfunction while I was at the match.

                          I have been fortunate in that regard, as I have had bolts break on my Grendels. Since having the upper receivers trued, I haven't had any bolt breakage. But, for all I know, my bolts will break again the next time I shoot them...or they may last forever. I doubt anyone can predict when a bolt will break. Bolt replacement is even recommended for the 5.56 cartridge, so I guess there isn't any bolt that is immune from the possibility of breakage. The only thing we can say is that the 5.56 bolts are less likely to break, and that is significant.

                          But performance comes at a cost. Either short barrel life with the 6.5x284, or with the Grendel bolt failures. I think the "big bolt" marketed by AR15performance will do a great deal to increase reliability...when it is generally available.

                          In any case, I'm still a fan of the 5.56, the Grendel, the 308, the 260 Remington, and the 300 Win mag. Every one of those cartridges has it's downside. If the 260 Remington Ackley Improved would feed better out of a semi-auto rifle, it would be very close to perfect. But, again, the downside is relatively short barrel life. All cartridges have their shortcomings, and their advantages.

                          There isn't a single cartridge that is "universally wonderful" at all shooting events. We pick our cartridge based on what we perceive it's advantages and disadvantages to be for the shooting event we are planning on competing in. Even opinions about which cartridge is "best" for a given event is usually a hotly debated issue.

                          But I'm not quite clear on how this discussion stays on the originally posted topic about Bill Alexander having local meetings. So, for now, I'm going to err on the conservative side of not getting into further off topic discussions here. I would like to avoid a scolding for straying too far off the original topic of the thread.
                          Last edited by Guest; 05-08-2011, 03:58 PM.

                          Comment

                          • leopard6.5

                            #14
                            Hi Bill: Thanks for getting this started.

                            I don't think I'll be back up north( ND) at that time otherwise I would definitely be there.

                            If, in the future, you are able to arrange one in the southeast/Florida area please let us know.

                            Lee

                            Comment

                            • Longshot_34

                              #15
                              I'd be there if it was on the weekend. That time of year I'll be waist deep in spud harvest.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X