New Cartridge Developments and Implications for Dismounted Infantry Soldiers

[stanc]

Wow! That's a lot of creative thinking, guys. Many ideas that never occurred to me.

Chris, unfortunately, more surface to grab isn't the problem. I can hold onto the T-handle. I just don't have the physical strength to pull it all the way back. I've been doing weight training for about two months, but so far the increase in strength has been extremely little. In my youth, after two months of working out I made substantial improvements in strength and muscle mass. Now, even barely discernible gains are sooooo sloooow in coming.

Joe, I think you're right that a TC Contender carbine would be an excellent choice for doing terminal effects and barrier penetration tests. However, in light of recent experience, it's probably better that I not plan on doing any more such testing, at least for the near future.

Paul, the MS hasn't caused any pain. The problem is degraded muscle control and loss of strength. I'll check into the PRI Big Latch. Not sure if I fully understand your other ideas, though. For this dense ol' brain, pictures would've been better.

Rick, you want me to yank my teeth out??? Just kidding. You're quite right, I am accustomed to being independent. Although I used to have a couple of close friends and shooting buddies (they have since relocated to other parts of the state), I never relied upon them to go shooting. In fact, most of the time I went alone, and liked it that way, especially when doing terminal effects testing.

I appreciate everyone's support, and will seriously consider what you all have said. But, in addition to buying a gun, I need to find a source for an off-road walker. The parking lot at the range is composed of fine, talcum powder-like dirt, with large chunks of gravel. Rather difficult to move across with the narrow wheels on my walker, which was designed for concrete sidewalks.

Stan

[Tony Williams]

Stan, it's certainly true that the secondary recoil kick (presumably caused by the bolt group hitting the buffers) is much worse on the M4 than on the M16. You can see this in graphical form in slide #4 of this: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2011smallar...2167Lukman.pdf

[LR1955]

Paul, the MS hasn't caused any pain. The problem is degraded muscle control and loss of strength. I'll check into the PRI Big Latch. Not sure if I fully understand your other ideas, though. For this dense ol' brain, pictures would've been better. Stan

Stan:

What LRRPF52 is saying is to take a piece of parachute cord and make it into a loop. Put it around your wrist and loop one end around the charging handle. Then pull with the loop arm while pushing the forend or pistol grip with the other arm. No need for grip strength, biceps or triceps. You are using your upper body and shoulders.

LR55

[stanc]

Thanks, Gene. Not sure how feasible that is, since holding the rifle with only one hand, the gun will shake like it's in a magnitude 9.0 earthquake.

I can give it a try, though.

[LR1955]

Thanks, Gene. Not sure how feasible that is, since holding the rifle with only one hand, the gun will shake like it's in a magnitude 9.0 earthquake.

I can give it a try, though.

Stan:

So what if it shakes. You are only pulling the charging handle back far enough so it strips a cartridge. Even if you ride the bolt forward, you should have a forward assist that will let you put it into battery. Just ensure the barrel is pointed down range.

LR55

[stanc]

Using your support hand in the glove or wristband, you could basically charge the weapon in a hugging motion while turning the weapon over with your firing hand, placing the left side of the receiver up, keeping the muzzle downrange. Then hook the loop onto the charge handle latch, and "hug" the empty space between you and the rifle, applying force to the left with your right hand and arm(if you're right-handed), and force to the right with your left arm.

In the video below, is the movement at 0:18 what you mean by a "hugging" motion?

Any thoughts on the Brownells paratrooper charging handle?

[LRRPF52]

Stan,

That's Pretty much the idea I was trying to convey. The method he uses to charge is along the lines of more modern manual of arms techniques used on AR's nowadays, with varying approaches as to how the support hand is oriented when using the latch. With extended latches, you can palm them like he did, or use your index and thumb to grab them, but in your case, the palm might work without needing the loop idea I mentioned, depending on your ability to maintain muscular tension in your wrist in combination with your upper body mechanics.

I would recommend the BCM/VLTOR Large Latch Gunfighter Charge Handle over these, since it doesn't have a split in the Charge Handle like a standard CH. Basically, people running high round-count courses using aggressive one-handed charging techniques have broken piles of standard Charge Handles with extended latches, because the extended latches have the tendency to torque down on the rear "T" section of the handle, causing the thin bottom section to snap off, giving you a nose-slamming reciprocating charge handle.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUNFIGHTER-Charging-Handle-GFH-Mod-3-p/bcm%20gfh%20mod%203%20556.htm

I've been using these for a while now, and they're great. They're also half the price of a PRI Gas Buster.

[stanc]

That's Pretty much the idea I was trying to convey. The method he uses to charge is along the lines of more modern manual of arms techniques used on AR's nowadays, with varying approaches as to how the support hand is oriented when using the latch. With extended latches, you can palm them like he did...in your case, the palm might work without needing the loop idea I mentioned, depending on your ability to maintain muscular tension in your wrist in combination with your upper body mechanics.

Practicing a slightly modified variation of the technique (while sitting here at the computer), it seems as if it might work for me if I hold the grip with my right hand and use left palm on the charging handle. Need to try it with a real gun, though.

A complication is that, although I'm right-handed, I'll have to shoot left-handed. So, when I try the movement with hand positions reversed, it doesn't work at all well. However, since it's unlikely I'll be doing any tactical shooting, I suppose that doesn't really matter. For leisurely shooting from a bench, if what it takes to get the bolt all the way to the rear is to hold the grip with my right hand, then switch hands in order to shoot, who cares if it isn't tactically efficient...

I would recommend the BCM/VLTOR Large Latch Gunfighter Charge Handle over these, since it doesn't have a split in the Charge Handle like a standard CH. Basically, people running high round-count courses using aggressive one-handed charging techniques have broken piles of standard Charge Handles with extended latches, because the extended latches have the tendency to torque down on the rear "T" section of the handle, causing the thin bottom section to snap off, giving you a nose-slamming reciprocating charge handle.

Ouch! I hadn't heard of that before. Thanks for that tidbit.

I'd probably never shoot enough for that to be a concern, but it's good to know, anyway.

[LRRPF52]

Why do you have to shoot left-handed?

[Variable]

Stan,

That's Pretty much the idea I was trying to convey. The method he uses to charge is along the lines of more modern manual of arms techniques used on AR's nowadays, with varying approaches as to how the support hand is oriented when using the latch. With extended latches, you can palm them like he did, or use your index and thumb to grab them, but in your case, the palm might work without needing the loop idea I mentioned, depending on your ability to maintain muscular tension in your wrist in combination with your upper body mechanics.

I would recommend the BCM/VLTOR Large Latch Gunfighter Charge Handle over these, since it doesn't have a split in the Charge Handle like a standard CH. Basically, people running high round-count courses using aggressive one-handed charging techniques have broken piles of standard Charge Handles with extended latches, because the extended latches have the tendency to torque down on the rear "T" section of the handle, causing the thin bottom section to snap off, giving you a nose-slamming reciprocating charge handle.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUNFIGHTER-Charging-Handle-GFH-Mod-3-p/bcm%20gfh%20mod%203%20556.htm

I've been using these for a while now, and they're great. They're also half the price of a PRI Gas Buster.

Thanks for the heads up! I hadn't seen those. I wish they would incorporate a gas groove too, but I guess there is always the RTV sealant mod for can usage.

That might work good for Stan. Personally I don't like latches that stick out very far (because they snag on my gear) but that does look pretty neat, and just might fit the bill for Stan.

[Variable]

Practicing a slightly modified variation of the technique (while sitting here at the computer), it seems as if it might work for me if I hold the grip with my right hand and use left palm on the charging handle. Need to try it with a real gun, though.

A complication is that, although I'm right-handed, I'll have to shoot left-handed. So, when I try the movement with hand positions reversed, it doesn't work at all well. However, since it's unlikely I'll be doing any tactical shooting, I suppose that doesn't really matter. For leisurely shooting from a bench, if what it takes to get the bolt all the way to the rear is to hold the grip with my right hand, then switch hands in order to shoot, who cares if it isn't tactically efficient...

Ouch! I hadn't heard of that before. Thanks for that tidbit.

I'd probably never shoot enough for that to be a concern, but it's good to know, anyway.

Hopefully one of these techniques will work, but if not, I have thought of another somewhat Rube Goldbergesque approach that probably would....


If you had a charging handle with some form of "eyelet" installed in the rear, you could use a release like is used on a compound bow to charge the weapon.

With the bow release attached to your chest, you would:

1.) clip onto the charging handle

2.) (while facing downrange) snag the carbine on a surface such as a shooting bench or verticle pole/surface and lean back. Your body weight would pull the charging handle rearward with little effort on you part.

3.) activate the bow release to let the charging handle fly forward.

If your AR had a bipod or forward "K" grip on the bottom, it would be easy to snag it on any convenient surface to do this....

It would probably be preferrable to find something that didn't require a bow release to be attached to your chest to charge your weapon, but if all else failed, it should work pretty easy I'd guess????

[stanc]

Hopefully one of these techniques will work, but if not, I have thought of another somewhat Rube Goldbergesque approach that probably would....

Hmm... D'ya really think Ruby Gold the burlesque stripper would have an approach that'd help? (Yeah, I know. It seemed funnier when the thought first struck me.)

If you had a charging handle with some form of "eyelet" installed in the rear, you could use a release like is used on a compound bow to charge the weapon.

With the bow release attached to your chest, you would:

1.) clip onto the charging handle

2.) (while facing downrange) snag the carbine on a surface such as a shooting bench or verticle pole/surface and lean back. Your body weight would pull the charging handle rearward with little effort on you part.

3.) activate the bow release to let the charging handle fly forward.

Yikes! And me fly backward! Just kidding. Well, actually only half kidding. Did I mention that the MS has done bad things to my balance?

It would probably be preferrable to find something that didn't require a bow release to be attached to your chest to charge your weapon, but if all else failed...

Yeah, let's put that in the "options of last resort" file.

[Variable]

Hmm... D'ya really think Ruby Gold the burlesque stripper....

Did I mention that the MS has done bad things to my balance?

If you had spent more time with Ruby Gold, maybe your balance would be better.LOL

Substituting for the lack of time spent with Ruby might explain your loss of vision too.... Just sayin' LOL!!!! J/K!!!

Get you a good woman (after moving out of CA of course!) and she can charge your rig for you!!!

[JASmith]

...Get you a good woman (after moving out of CA of course!) and she can charge your rig for you!!!

That's likely the best solution of all!!!!

[stanc]

If you had spent more time with Ruby Gold, maybe your balance would be better.LOL

Substituting for the lack of time spent with Ruby might explain your loss of vision too.... Just sayin' LOL!!!! J/K!!!

Ha! That could be. Father Mulcahy kept telling me I'd go blind, but I didn't believe him.