Military switching to "green" bullets (Military.com)

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  • Military switching to "green" bullets (Military.com)

    The U.S. Army is taking the expression “get the lead out” quite literally and switching to lead-free environmentally friendly bullets.


    Question on how this effects the Grendel. I assume that both the 5.56 and 7.62 will be lighter than those with lead.


    Find the latest military news, military jobs, veteran jobs, service benefits and military products on Military1.


    What is with the assumption that any military bullet will be "ball"? If the standard is set to use a BC shaped bullet, why would the military go against that standard?
  • Michael
    Warrior
    • Jan 2012
    • 353

    #2
    Nothing new, has been a push for the last several years. I would imagine that the new ammo would weigh the same as the current ball, as the SOST does
    http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...ost-5-56-ammo/ While not a green bullet, is still a re-design based on twist of service rifles, optics, and what works best in the rifles.

    As to whether it will be 'Ball' ammo, it depends on how they name the new rounds and ensure they are in compliance with international treaties and laws. Calling rounds 'Open Tip Match' instead of 'Hollow Points' seems to work.
    Last edited by Michael; 07-26-2013, 03:50 PM.
    I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.
    - Voltaire

    Comment


    • #3
      The concerns was that making the core out of copper would make the rounds too expensive. Wonder why not steel?

      The other question would be if the 6.5 Grendel would not be acceptable then what would be acceptable? It is clear that we are not going back to the 7.62x51 and that the 5.56x45 is just too light for many missions. While I think that the 6.5mm would be the ideal caliber, some might see that something closer to 7mm would be better. The question is how to get the maximum BC and sectional density so that the round puts more energy down range (.30 caliber rounds lose too much).

      Then is what the dimenisions of the case should be. It appears that it should be close to 10.7mm in diameter. And no shorter than 40mm but not much longer than 45mm.

      Comment

      • stanc
        Banned
        • Apr 2011
        • 3430

        #4
        Originally posted by Trooper View Post
        http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/24/ge...green-bullets/

        Question on how this effects the Grendel. I assume that both the 5.56 and 7.62 will be lighter than those with lead.
        Wrong assumption. The 5.56 M855A1 is 62gr, same as lead core M855. Presumably 7.62 M80A1 will weigh circa 147gr, like lead core M80.

        The effect on 6.5 Grendel is that a military loading (for the US Army) would need the same type bullet construction.



        What is with the assumption that any military bullet will be "ball"? If the standard is set to use a BC shaped bullet, why would the military go against that standard?
        "Ball" is the nomenclature traditionally given to the standard, general purpose, general issue load. It dates back to when a round (lead) ball was used in muskets and rifles.

        What is a "BC shaped bullet" and who would set that standard?

        Comment

        • stanc
          Banned
          • Apr 2011
          • 3430

          #5
          Originally posted by Trooper View Post
          The concerns was that making the core out of copper would make the rounds too expensive. Wonder why not steel?
          Since steel has lower density than copper, using a steel slug would make the bullet longer, and thereby eat up more powder space.
          The other question would be if the 6.5 Grendel would not be acceptable then what would be acceptable?
          That's the $64,000,000 question. Nobody knows for sure.
          It is clear that we are not going back to the 7.62x51 and that the 5.56x45 is just too light for many missions. While I think that the 6.5mm would be the ideal caliber, some might see that something closer to 7mm would be better.

          Then is what the dimenisions of the case should be. It appears that it should be close to 10.7mm in diameter. And no shorter than 40mm but not much longer than 45mm.
          Bullet and case dimensions should be whatever they need to be to achieve the goal. So far, IMO there is insufficient test data publicly available to make a rational choice of bullet caliber and weight.

          Comment

          • sneaky one
            Chieftain
            • Mar 2011
            • 3077

            #6
            stanc-
            The 855A1 tip is Steel-for better penetration -thru barriers & 4 layers of canvas-denim & such.
            The Afganies can tolerate the heat, so they wear that , as to win the war...
            It is their BP vest, so to speak. The mission is close range killing-penetration power with the new pill.
            BC's don't mean much at 30 ft. or 30-yds. Yet-== The pill works fine out to 300 y.



            The Grendel rounds would be more effective , as compared to 5.56. Let's say a steel tip was made for a 115-120 fragmenting unit?
            It would rock the military brass, they may finally see the light? I am in the -build a few of my own mode here---I'll report back when they are good to go/. It seems like the right direction to go, on this 6.5 pill
            S1

            Comment

            • stanc
              Banned
              • Apr 2011
              • 3430

              #7
              Originally posted by sneaky one View Post
              The Grendel rounds would be more effective , as compared to 5.56. Let's say a steel tip was made for a 115-120 fragmenting unit?
              Put a steel tip in a Hornady GMX, I'd guesstimate circa 110 grains.
              It would rock the military brass, they may finally see the light? I am in the -build a few of my own mode here---I'll report back when they are good to go/.
              Looking forward to it!

              Comment

              • stanc
                Banned
                • Apr 2011
                • 3430

                #8
                Originally posted by sneaky one View Post
                The Grendel rounds would be more effective , as compared to 5.56. Let's say a steel tip was made for a 115-120 fragmenting unit?
                It would rock the military brass, they may finally see the light? I am in the -build a few of my own mode here---I'll report back when they are good to go/. It seems like the right direction to go, on this 6.5 pill
                Hey, Sneaky... How goes it with this idea?

                Comment

                • sneaky one
                  Chieftain
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 3077

                  #9
                  Sorry Stan, been too busy on a hundred other projects-banging federals gong all the time thru Blade, etc. My old parents take up my wknds., after the car crash, and the fallout...
                  I never quit-I will re-focus this spring on this.

                  How have you been? Good to see you posting.
                  Any free time has been devoted to the GMX-lite for the Grrr,,, & working up loads for shorty 40=the 7.62x40WT. Check my last album.
                  Take care, stay in touch. I will always keep you updated. Dan

                  Comment

                  • maverick5582

                    #10
                    And I thought that "the Golden Years" just meant that you piss a lot.

                    Comment

                    • stanc
                      Banned
                      • Apr 2011
                      • 3430

                      #11
                      The US Army's "green" bullets -- the exposed penetrator, 5.56mm M855A1 and 7.62mm M80A1 rounds -- are unique to this country. Other armies have elected to stay with traditional FMJ configuration in developing lead-free projectiles. One of these is the 5.56mm BNT 4 HP (Ball, Non-Toxic 4 High-Performance) loading made for the Norwegian military by Nammo.

                      Below, l. to r.: 77gr SMK; 62gr BNT 4 HP; 62gr M855


                      Below, 62gr BNT 4 HP sectioned, showing 2-piece steel core (soft steel slug, hard steel tip)


                      Should anyone wish to acquire some of the Nammo lead-free ammo, it is currently available as "Carl Gustaf NATO 5.56X45/.223 62grn" from http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...+1%2c000rd+Can

                      Buyer Beware: Judging by headstamp dates, this surplus ammo is the first iteration that reportedly caused some health issues when fired in HK416 rifles in indoor ranges. It is almost certainly NOT the new and improved Mk2 version.

                      Prospective purchasers may also wish to read the following arfcom thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=649168

                      Comment

                      • stanc
                        Banned
                        • Apr 2011
                        • 3430

                        #12
                        Found on the MG&A forum:
                        Here is is full court ruling regarding M885A1

                        In the United States Court of Federal Claims - U.S. Court Of Federal ...
                        https://ecf.cofc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bi...2011cv0084-112

                        Comment

                        • Variable
                          Chieftain
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 2403

                          #13
                          Originally posted by stanc View Post
                          Found on the MG&A forum:
                          I'd like to be getting those checks!
                          Life member NRA, SAF, GOA, WVSRPA (and VFW). Also member WVCDL. Join NOW!!!!!
                          We either hang together on this, or we'll certainly HANG separately.....

                          Comment

                          • BluntForceTrauma
                            Administrator
                            • Feb 2011
                            • 3897

                            #14
                            :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

                            :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

                            Comment

                            • stanc
                              Banned
                              • Apr 2011
                              • 3430

                              #15
                              Gel tests of M855A1 (top) vs Mk318 (bottom).



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