ANOTHER UPDATE WITH MIXED RESULTS. 500, 600 and 1000 YDS.

[lrgrendel]

24" barrel. 80 deg. 65% humidity. Calm wind. Sea level.

Hornady 123 AMAX. Varget 28.4 g. 2473 FPS

Hornady 123 AMAX. AA 2520. 29.4 g. 2572 FPS.

First time out today with my Grendel beyond 300 yds. It was "nuts on" at 500 and 600 yds with both loads hitting the center of a 10" steel plate consistently. Very very pleased.

At 500 yds with the Varget load JBM called for 3.7 mils. Actual was 3.5 mils.
At 600 yds. " " " " " " " 5.1 mils. Actual was 5.0 mils.

At 600 yds with the AA 2520 load JBM called for 4.6 mils. Actual was 4.7 mils.

I did not shoot the Varget load at 600 yds as I only had about 25 rounds of each and I shot the Varget loads first. It is also a little on the slow side which is why I also did not try it at 1000 yds.


1000 yds. Different story!! BTW my past history for the last couple of years is shooting 175 SMK 308 WIN 2640 FPS at a 1000 yds with average results.

I only shot my AA2520 loads at 1000 yds and they were very inconsistent. I suspect they were becoming unstable hence my velocity was not high enough.

At 29.4 g of AA 2520 I am close to the book "max" so back to the drawing board!


If someone could chime in with 1000 yds Grendel experience I'd appreciate it.


MINIMUM VELOCITY REQUIRED WITH THIS BULLET TO REACH 1000 yds??

I have only shot the 123 AMAX since getting my Grendel.

SHOULD I TRY A DIFFERENT BULLET. SMK OR LAPUA MAYBE??


I have enough AA 2520 to try and squeeze a bit more velocity out of it but also have 8 lbs of IMR 8208 that I have not even opened.

No photos today as we had 6 shooters and the evidence would have been hard to record!!

As I said before a real fun gun to shoot. Had a few guys ask me about it as they had not seen the round before.

BTW. Bought a brass catcher for my $1.20 Lapua cases!! Best thing I ever bought!!

[COTNTOP]

I shoot 123 Lapua/28.0 AR comp with good results to 1000yd. Tried the Amax and did not like the results past 600yd.

[lrgrendel]

I shoot 123 Lapua/28.0 AR comp with good results to 1000yd. Tried the Amax and did not like the results past 600yd.

Hey.
What velocity are you getting and from what length barrel?

Thanks

[COTNTOP]

24in. barrel and i think speed was around 2850. Copied Drifter's load for AR-comp.

[LR1955]

24in. barrel and i think speed was around 2850. Copied Drifter's load for AR-comp.

CT:

2850 with a 123 and a .260 Remington is getting up there. Not dangerous but getting up there. And such a load takes about forty grains of powder. I doubt anyone is getting anything past about 2700 with a 123 and the Grendel and I would not shoot such a hot load out of a gas gun. I have hit 2700 and 2750 with 120s and the Grendel with a gas gun and it was way too hot a load.

Bring it down to about 2650 and you are pretty much on line with a pretty stout Grendel load and a 123. And that would be on the warm end for a 24" barrel.

At 2650, the 123 bullets will be transonic at 1000 so who knows what will happen. Some may fly straight and some may not. In this case, the best bet is to keep the load but change bullets. In this situation, I would try the 123 Sierra or 123 Lapua. I have never found the 123 Sierras to be good with anythng unless I jammed them into the lands, but have found the 123 Lapua's to be pretty reliable.

What LRG describes I find to be the norm. You will only get so much out of a 30 grain capacity cartridge.

If you want performance at distances past 600 yards, you need velocity. 2900 fps is a good starter. My better shooing loads of any cartridge at 1000 have been around 2950. I have gone up to 3100 with some but never found them to be real good so always went back to about 2950 which just seemed the right speed for 800 - 1000.

LR1955

[lrgrendel]

CT:

2850 with a 123 and a .260 Remington is getting up there. Not dangerous but getting up there. And such a load takes about forty grains of powder. I doubt anyone is getting anything past about 2700 with a 123 and the Grendel and I would not shoot such a hot load out of a gas gun. I have hit 2700 and 2750 with 120s and the Grendel with a gas gun and it was way too hot a load.

Bring it down to about 2650 and you are pretty much on line with a pretty stout Grendel load and a 123. And that would be on the warm end for a 24" barrel.

At 2650, the 123 bullets will be transonic at 1000 so who knows what will happen. Some may fly straight and some may not. In this case, the best bet is to keep the load but change bullets. In this situation, I would try the 123 Sierra or 123 Lapua. I have never found the 123 Sierras to be good with anythng unless I jammed them into the lands, but have found the 123 Lapua's to be pretty reliable.

What LRG describes I find to be the norm. You will only get so much out of a 30 grain capacity cartridge.

If you want performance at distances past 600 yards, you need velocity. 2900 fps is a good starter. My better shooing loads of any cartridge at 1000 have been around 2950. I have gone up to 3100 with some but never found them to be real good so always went back to about 2950 which just seemed the right speed for 800 - 1000.

LR1955

LR1955

Thanks for your reply.

I am still learning this Grendel cartridge but now am a little frustrated. Was making good progress but now hit a brick wall!!
I do realize just like the 308 they are not really 1000 yd guns.

What about a lighter bullet like the Lapua Scenar 108g? I guess you can get it to go faster than the 123g types but wonder will it perform past that magic number of 600-800 yds?

[Drifter]

CT:

2850 with a 123 and a .260 Remington is getting up there. Not dangerous but getting up there. And such a load takes about forty grains of powder. I doubt anyone is getting anything past about 2700 with a 123 and the Grendel and I would not shoot such a hot load out of a gas gun. I have hit 2700 and 2750 with 120s and the Grendel with a gas gun and it was way too hot a load.

Bring it down to about 2650 and you are pretty much on line with a pretty stout Grendel load and a 123. And that would be on the warm end for a 24" barrel.

At 2650, the 123 bullets will be transonic at 1000 so who knows what will happen. Some may fly straight and some may not. In this case, the best bet is to keep the load but change bullets. In this situation, I would try the 123 Sierra or 123 Lapua. I have never found the 123 Sierras to be good with anythng unless I jammed them into the lands, but have found the 123 Lapua's to be pretty reliable.

What LRG describes I find to be the norm. You will only get so much out of a 30 grain capacity cartridge.

If you want performance at distances past 600 yards, you need velocity. 2900 fps is a good starter. My better shooing loads of any cartridge at 1000 have been around 2950. I have gone up to 3100 with some but never found them to be real good so always went back to about 2950 which just seemed the right speed for 800 - 1000.

LR1955

I think that MV was likely a misprint / typo. Based on the stated load in his previous post, he probably meant 2650 fps.

[LRRPF52]

You have to come up in altitude to get solid 1000yd performance with the Grendel, preferably in the summer months. Even with my 16" pushing factory A-MAX at 2460fps, I was supersonic out to 1318yds in 87F at 4400ft ASL, but I would never expect that at sea level, especially in or near the Tropics. The air is extremely dry up where I shoot in many places.

I was able to repeatedly hit POA/POI at 1200yds this summer with the 16"/123gr A-MAX with 14.4 mils elevation. There was literally no wind when I did it, so it was easy as indexing the crosshairs and pulling the trigger-very surprising to me, since I had limited my little carbine to a 700yd gun at the most.

This is the area I was at when I did it. For reference, the target in the pic is at 400yds, which 1st-timers hit with ease on the Grendel:

[LR1955]

You have to come up in altitude to get solid 1000yd performance with the Grendel, preferably in the summer months. Even with my 16" pushing factory A-MAX at 2460fps, I was supersonic out to 1318yds in 87F at 4400ft ASL, but I would never expect that at sea level, especially in or near the Tropics. The air is extremely dry up where I shoot in many places.

I was able to repeatedly hit POA/POI at 1200yds this summer with the 16"/123gr A-MAX with 14.4 mils elevation. There was literally no wind when I did it, so it was easy as indexing the crosshairs and pulling the trigger-very surprising to me, since I had limited my little carbine to a 700yd gun at the most.

This is the area I was at when I did it. For reference, the target in the pic is at 400yds, which 1st-timers hit with ease on the Grendel:

LR52:

CT lives near Bragg I believe.

[nincomp]

What about a lighter bullet like the Lapua Scenar 108g? I guess you can get it to go faster than the 123g types but wonder will it perform past that magic number of 600-800 yds?

I know that several years ago, Arne Brennan said that he had better luck with the Lapua 108 at long distance. It is probably worth a try, provided the bullets don't cost an arm and a leg.

[lrgrendel]

I know that several years ago, Arne Brennan said that he had better luck with the Lapua 108 at long distance. It is probably worth a try, provided the bullets don't cost an arm and a leg.

Nincomp.

Yes I read the same but the quote was from Bill Alexander.
They are available for between $37 and $40 a box.

Thanks

[Drifter]

Arne has used the 108gr Scenar successfully at 1k. I believe the first post on the link below is by him:

http://www.beyond556.com/bboard/showthread.php?4951-The-Ultimate-6.5-Grendel&

[COTNTOP]

You were right Drifter, looked in my book and average velocity was 2652fps exactly. Got mixed up. Loaded a little hotter than your load and accuracy seems to be better in my rifle at longer distance. LRGRENDEL do not give up on 1000yd yet, that little cartridge will fool a lot of people. I hang pretty good with my Grendel against those lazers, just wait and pull it out late in the day when the wind slacks off.

[bwaites]

I've shot the 107 Sierra, the 108 Lapua, and the 123 Amax at 1000 yards. I've had the best consistency with Factory 123 Amax's. Try as hard as I can. I simply can't do as well as Hornady does with their factory load. I'm beginning to think I might get there with CFE223, but haven't had time to work the load up really well. I've said this before, but I shot the Grendel in a 1000 yard F Class match, and of all the F Open and FTR shooters, I was the only one with X's in the rotation. This was a windy day at Rattlesnake, and the wind there can change in an instant. I actually had 3X's, and 5 10's, but missed a wind shift of almost 180 degrees and threw some out in the 6 ring, too.

The next best load I've shot is the 107 Sierra over 28.5 of XBR 8208. That load shoots lights out until about 700 yards, then the 123 Amax seems to be a little better. I've not tried the 107 over a healthy load of CFE223, so that might be an option. I really like XBR because of its temp stability, but when I try to match factory Hornady with it in my 28" barrel, I start making belted magnum Grendel brass. (If you have the reloading manual, that picture of belted Grendel brass is mine, that was a 123 Amax over 28.5 of XBR 8208 shot from my 28" rifle. Its a good load from my 20", but the dwell time is to long in the 28")

Both the 123 and 107 loads are stable to 1000 yards at 1000 feet above sea level (ASL), and my calculations say they are both well above supersonic even at sea level, but....

[nincomp]

Arne has used the 108gr Scenar successfully at 1k.

Arne was indeed using the 108 Scenar at 1K, BUT (and this is a BIG BUT), he was using a custom bolt gun that could handle significantly more pressure than an AR15. Since then, some new powders have come out, but still ...

I also think that Arne noted that his match rifle just happened to "like" the 108 more than the 123. Stuff like that happens.

Bwaites, don't feel bad about not being able to match Hornady's load. From what I understand, all of Hornady's employees that work with their blended powders or develop new loads belong to a secret society, use special handshakes, and (now I am not sure about this one) wear wizards' hats. There was an initial suggestion that they burn special incense, but they thankfully realized that the "burn" part of the suggestion was not a good idea.