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after all i have read from this site i see that its very necessary to develope a load for your gun using ladder testing and doing such with the multiple of bullets and powders that youmight want to use for your particular rifle and barrel. its literally several hundreds and hundreds of fired rounds to find that just right load and bullet. but i also see that these barrels only shoot the finest for the first few hundred rounds at best and then will fall off as to their use for really great accuracy. so whats the use? by the time you get the best load and bullet for your gun its life is gone,,,,,,,,,,,,
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I think barrel life is ALOT better than just a few hundred rounds and if you are firing more than 100 rounds to find the right load you are doing something way wrong. I ran an OCW test on my last barrel and it took me well under 100 rounds to find the right load. Use common components that everyone is having great success with and you should be good.Comment
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i agree that i think that barrel life goes behond a few hundred rounds but the VERY best accurate life of the barrel is the first several hundred rounds. it goes down from there. and doing the math, if you get lucky and find the right bullet, and the right powder for that bullet and start at the start load and using 5 to 10 rounds going up by 3 tenths thats .3 grains between test loads till you deciede thats its maxed out or pushing the limits of pressure or accuracy then changing either the bullet or powder then doing it all over again as EVERYONE HERE says you must do, you have literally gone thru many many hundreds of rounds just by changing either bullet or powder or in some cases primer or brass. everyone always says you must start all over at the beginning if changing anything. i see why many folks i know in real life dont want anything to do with these types of rounds and rifles,,,,,,,whats the use?Comment
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You are so wrong. Barrel life (good barrel life) is well over 3k-4k rounds.. I have seen .308 barrels run into the 8k range with accuracy just starting to fall off.Originally posted by dammitman View Post
You are doing it wrong. Pick a powder, there are a few standout powders, run a couple OCW's and you will be good to go for a load. Then play with seating depth, but in an auto loader you are kind of limited anyways..
You are wrong. Typically it takes me 20-25 rounds to find an accuracy node, then I run a refined powder charge OCW (.2) and that is IT. 50 rounds MAX.. Like MAX..Comment
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LOL, the Grendel is not a barrel burner. I have a 300 Weatherby with a custom Pac nor barrel that has close to 400 rounds through it and it is still shooting sub MOA. It is renowned for being a barrel burner. I'm not as experienced as many on this forum when shooting long range but you want to find the most efficient, accurate load that is cost effective. If your going to go to the range 4 times a year and shoot tin cans it wouldn't be worth it. If your going to shooting matches or taking an expensive hunting trip improving your skill and accuracy is very important. It is also a lot of fun finding a sweet load.
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I can find a good load in 20 rounds, and fine-tune it with another 10...done. The first 10 loads will all be different charge weights. I can shoot them at 200-300yds if I really want, but I look at the Chronograph as my primary focus. If three of my charge weights in that 10rd string have velocities really close to each other, chances are I'm at a longitudinal shock wave optimum where the SD is tight between 3 different loads. Fire a duplicate string again to check consistency of the velocity increases per charge weight, and any noticed tight areas, then produce larger volumes of one charge weight.
I can then fine-tune that charge weight with seating depths. I do this no matter what cartridge I'm shooting. Also, barrel life in the lower-pressure Grendel will be longer than a .308 easily, because we're not gas-checking the throat every time we pull the trigger like on some of the hot .308/7.62 NATO loads that are 58,000psi plus.
Doing all this is really for those that like to pursue optimum accuracy potential of their rifles, and isn't really necessary for everyone. Most of your barrels will shoot 1.5 MOA or better no matter what you load in them, with a large majority of Grendel barrels hovering around .75-1 MOA. As you get more premium barrels, they will shoot much better than .75 MOA, but you can log a record of all your groups, and there will be outliers that open the average up.Comment
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I'm glad no one told my Grendels that they weren't supposed to shoot well past that first few hundred! I saw NO degradation of accuracy until I was past 4500 rounds. I regularly shot .25MOA groups with my first barrel until then. It stayed sub MOA until I rebarreled around 6000 rounds.Originally posted by dammitman View Post
The Grendel is very comparable to the .308 in usuable, accurate barrel life, and competition .308's regularly go to 4000-5000 rounds. My Grendel barrel would still have been a fine hunting barrel for years if I shot it like most hunters do their hunting barrels.
I'm with the others, for any given projectile, I'm usually into a very accurate load inside 50 shots. Of course, I keep playing with different loads looking for that last bit of accuracy!
That said, factory Hornady AMAX's have shot sub .5MOA at 100, and I've even shot them in F Class matches at 1000 yards. The last time I did, it was crazy windy and I was the only F Class shooter with X's, but lost because I flat missed a 180 wind shift, and one of the .308 guys didn't. I blew an 8 or two out the side and he had 9's.Comment
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Is someone over-thinking the problem?Originally posted by dammitman View Post
The multiple ladder tests, switching powders, bullets, adjusting COL, etc. are things one does to pull the finest accuracy out of one's rifle. The majority of us, while we might dream about .25 MOA groups in 15 mph winds, are secretly ecstatic when our groups stay under an inch at 100 yards on a calm day from a solid bench.
The Grendel displays excellent hunting accuracy all day long with loads that are easily developed. In fact, they are frequently good enough the first time out of the gate, leaving only the need to assure the loads are not generating more pressure than factory ammo.
Bottom line, revisit the question after you have tried one or two loads starting about 10% below the recommended max load. Let us know your goals and results and the advice you get will be a lot closer to what you need. To start with, don't bother tweaking loads if the groups are larger than about 2" at 100 yards. The problem would not likely be the load and you can get some suggestions on scope mounting, crown condition, bolt mating and so on.
Chances are that you will find that first load does better than an MOA and you may just shoot that one until you and your rifle feel comfortable with each other.
Then, track your accuracy over the first 3,000 rounds you put down the tube, and plot the results.Comment
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lol...good one OP...
I guess I'm on the other end of the spectrum sir. I bought a cheap Model 1 Sales upper, whacked the barrel back to 12-inches, slapped it on my full auto lower, and stuck a 308 suppressor on the end of it. Never shot a reload, only the factory Wolf (which shoots 1.5 MOA), and the Hornady factory (which shoots 1 MOA) and went to town....shoots good enough for me and my needs.
I guess I did splurged a little bit and put a Leupold 1.5x4 power scope on it though.
Have shot it some on full auto, but I am probably going to be too old and/or dead by the time the steel case "cheap" ammo comes out, so by then I guess MY life will be gone, but the shorty Grendel will still be alive....Comment
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As a reloader and someone that has developed loads for numerous rifles. It really comes down to a particular aspect of this hobby and reloading. Most of the loads I have for my 556 and the 308 were to squeeze the absolute maximum accuracy. Most of the loads through the development were very accurate.
The load development is kind of 2 fold. First finding the most accurate load to accomplish a certain task. If I am punching paper, then the smallest use of powder to accomplish the best accuracy is the goal. When I started working on a MK262 clone load, I was trying to maintain the most accurate load with the greatest velocity without showing signs of pressure. The velocity was critical to maintain the greatest range of fragmentation of the 77gr SMK. If I am just loading some practice ammo, I go to my loads and find a load that will be accurate and use the least amount of powder to save money.
My 556 rifle is pushing 3k rounds on a stainless barrel. It is still a sub MOA rifle with irons at 100 yards, as long as I do my part.Comment
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I think some people might just do load testing/development as a hobby and will never be done. That is just what they do.
The guys here that are into target shooting for competition know what load to use and don't have to waist to many rounds testing, they already have 90% of the data they need. That is the benefit of these guy's putting together the Grendel Load Data Guides, so we don't have to waist hundreds of rounds, they did it already.
Also if the accuracy drops off after"X" amount of rounds, plan accordingly and have extra barrels on hand. I'll take any of there barrels they feel are not worthy and be more than happy as they probably shoot better than my button cut barrel and are just fine for the average joe-shmoe and me too. Just fine for hunting too.
If there is a magic number when a barrel goes South, that would be nice to know. Maybe some of the long time shooter have that info and will share it.Comment
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Where did you get this little bit of information?Originally posted by dammitmanComment
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Ted:Originally posted by Tedward View Post
Don't cut down button rifling. Many top end shooters use button rifled barrels and the differences between top end cut and button rifled barrels is nothing other than opinions.
I would say that with the Grendel, the upper five percent of target shooters in the world will probably see problems at 600 yards after about 6000 rounds. Maybe 5000. At 300 yards, 5000 to 6000. I guess it depends on what type of shooting a person is doing. Given the intent for the Grendel in an AR platform, I figure most guys will need a new barrel between 8000 and 10,000 if you are after High Power standards to 600 yards. The problem is that the low speeds of the cartridge do not make it competitive in High Power and it is High Power shooters who actually shoot enough ammo to wear out barrels regularly. So, people normally use High Power as a decent source for things like barrel life.
Also, the steel used in the barrels, chrome lining, and the type of shooting done will determine barrel life. 3 Gun shooters and automatic fire blasters will go through barrels faster because all they do is shoot sustained or automatic fire.
Figure on 8,000 to 10,000 rounds.
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