Multi-Gun Training/Fun Comp September 18-20 2014

[LRRPF52]

It's about time to collect a down payment so I can reserve the specific portions of the range we will need. That is what it will be going towards, in addition to the catering costs for out meal(s).

If you have not contacted me yet, do so ASAP about getting on this course. We're about full, with maybe 2-3 slots left I think. Send your confirmation email to:

orders@ar15buildbox.com

I'll let you know the down payment price once I know who is solid, but we're looking at $100-$150 for the down payment.

I found a great deal on some 69gr SMK Match ammo from PPU through Midway. I ordered a bunch and it showed up pronto. It has 28 5 star reviews.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2503219028/product?cm_mmc=pe_weekly-_-supersonic-_-ssp_prvi_20140601_1-_-AdBlock01

This will be decent for the DM portion of the course if you are shooting 5.56/.223 Rem AR15. You'll have solid performance out to at least 400yds, and out to 600yds if the wind isn't too bad. I usually prefer the 75gr BTHP, A-MAX, and 77gr BTHP for 600yds with my 223 Wylde AR's.

If you're shooting Grendel, any of the factory loads will be better on steel compared to .223 Rem, especially your 123gr stuff. It hits almost like a .308 Winchester.

[Variable]

I found a great deal on some 69gr SMK Match ammo from PPU through Midway. I ordered a bunch and it showed up pronto. It has 28 5 star reviews.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2503219028/product?cm_mmc=pe_weekly-_-supersonic-_-ssp_prvi_20140601_1-_-AdBlock01

This will be decent for the DM portion of the course if you are shooting 5.56/.223 Rem AR15. You'll have solid performance out to at least 400yds, and out to 600yds if the wind isn't too bad. I usually prefer the 75gr BTHP, A-MAX, and 77gr BTHP for 600yds with my 223 Wylde AR's.

If you're shooting Grendel, any of the factory loads will be better on steel compared to .223 Rem, especially your 123gr stuff. It hits almost like a .308 Winchester.

Partial OT, but kinda related-- There is another new 77gr. Mk262 Mod 1 clone out from IMI that is cheaper than Black Hills and actually available if you want to try some new distance fodder.

Wideners has it: https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail....dir=18|830|845

I chrnonoed it, and it compared very well to Black Hills velocity wise. I haven't shot it for accuracy (no range time to do it yet), but the other guys on Arf have. It's good to go.

First thread (got locked because the thread derailed when Wideners got hacked): http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/63...0ft_round.html

Second newer thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/64..._Round_II.html

ETA: Here is the chrono data I originally posted here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/63...age=4#i6354960

/////"Okay, I got off my butt and went out for some real world chrono data. I didn't have time to go to an actual range to shoot for accuracy, just a chrono run at the corner of the driveway (sorry neighbors.LOL) I only used one barrel length, and no suppressor. It's 16deg. F outside, and I was short on time and daylight.

Chrono used: Shooting Chrony "Alpha Master"
Distance measured from muzzle to chrono: 15 feet.
Temperature: 16.5 deg. F
Altitude: 1584ft.
Humidity: 50.7%

Weapon used: Colt 16" LE6940

IMI 77gr. OTM, LR, MOD 1 ("Razor Core")
Lot number: 00235/D

Low: 2712fps
High: 2784fps
Avg.: 2742fps
ES: 71.43
SD: 24.04

Shot numbers
1.) 2729fps
2.) 2738fps
3.) 2784fps
4.) 2730fps
5.) 2760fps
6.) 2717fps
7.) 2773fps
8.) 2727fps
9.) 2712fps
10.)2751fps



As a comparison I also fired Black Hills MK262 Mod 1 (White box "Seconds") ammunition aquired from Cabela's in the past.

Chrono used: Shooting Chrony "Alpha Master"
Distance measured from muzzle to chrono: 15 feet.
Temperature: 16.5 deg. F
Altitude: 1584ft.
Humidity: 50.6%

Weapon used: Colt 16" LE6940

Black Hills 5.56MM 77gr. Match HP
Lot number: BLH06H120-001

Low: 2611fps
High:2665fps
Avg.:2635fps
ES: 53.81
SD: 16.43

Shot numbers:
1.) 2641fps
2.) 2631fps
3.) 2611fps
4.) 2614fps
5.) 2632fps
6.) 2648fps
7.) 2635fps
8.) 2623fps
9.) 2647fps
10.)2665fps


Hopefully this info is helpful. Yes, I know these aren't 20 shot strings, and they weren't measured across an Oehler, but unless someone wants to send me free ammo and a free Oehler, these will have to do for now. I had to ditch two string attempts for piles of "error" failures, and this ammo gets expensive when you are just wasting it.

So.... In my Colt LE6940 (16" chrome 1:7 twist) I got an average of 2742fps from the IMI ammo, and an average of 2635 from the Black Hills. The temperature was only 16 degrees, but I had just brought the ammo from inside. I doubt it was much of a factor.

All said: YMMV, my .02, etc., etc....!




ETA: If my 6940 averaged 2742fps at 15 feet from the muzzle, what does that equal for "muzzle" velocity? How do you figure that?
ETA #2: I'm pretty surprised at the numbers I got, but I got what I got. I can only post what the chrony says. Maybe the BH lot I was using was a tad slower than normal? I'm sure stuff varies a bit, I dunno?"/////

Not looking to derail Paul's thread, just tossing in some related info.

[wbbnospam]

Coming in Sept. with NugginFutz from New Mexico!

[bwaites]

This thread needs to be woken up, as we are just 6 weeks from 0 day!

There are still a couple spots open, but LRRPF52 has been off teaching the Boy Scouts how to shoot for that last month and a half and hasn't had a chance to get on and say much. He will be done next weekend, though, and will be back to offer his wisdom!

For anyone that wants to come or bring someone that doesn't have a spot, please email him at the buildbox email address and he will get you signed up. (Give him a chance to get back and get squared away before panicking about not having received a reply, he'll be back online next weekend, but I'm sure will be backed up for a few days!)

I'm looking forward to it, and we are hoping for a special guest appearance!

[NugginFutz]

Thanks for bumping the thread. bwaites. It refreshed my memory, and I saw where LRRPF52 mentioned a down payment. Has anyone been contacted one, yet?

[bwaites]

He will be getting in touch next week with everyone, I think!

[wbbnospam]

Et the direction of NugginFutz I made a paypal deposit for the class. I've sent emails to the "orders" address and posted here I'm going. Why do you suppose I've not been contacted directly? Why no updates here asking for the deposit? Just curious.

[LR1955]

Et the direction of NugginFutz I made a paypal deposit for the class. I've sent emails to the "orders" address and posted here I'm going. Why do you suppose I've not been contacted directly? Why no updates here asking for the deposit? Just curious.

WBB:

I recall LRRP52 did make a post three (?) days ago saying he just returned from coaching at a Boy Scout camp for a month or so and was now back in the net. The recovery from the SPAM attack deleted a bunch of e-mails concerning this training but I imagine he will post something in the next 24 hours.

LR55

[LRRPF52]

Et the direction of NugginFutz I made a paypal deposit for the class. I've sent emails to the "orders" address and posted here I'm going. Why do you suppose I've not been contacted directly? Why no updates here asking for the deposit? Just curious.

I posted an update before the website attack. I was running Shooting Sports for the highest elevation Boy Scout Camp in the US for 7 weeks, and just finished on Saturday evening. I have been receiving the deposits to lock in the portions of the range we will be using.

We're looking forward to seeing everyone there. I've received commitments from several other people who will be assisting with camera/filming work, and one of my internationally-rated sniper buddies has expressed interest in being a guest for this course as well.

I'm still working out the details, but if you want some filming or pics, it looks like we will have one person who can focus on that alone.

This is going to be a very unique course when you look at the disciplines involved, as well as the schedule of 3 days, 2 nights. We're very excited about it.

[bwaites]

I'm looking more forward to this than I should be, I'm sure!

We may have a special guest appearance or two, as well! Still working on some logistics.

[LRRPF52]

We're less than a month out to this event. Main questions I have been answering are:

* Sources for match .223 Remington: http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rifle/223/

* Questions about lights. I personally use the Streamlight Microstream for Every Day Carry (EDC). For carbine lights, I really like 12 o'clock mount with the Surefire X-series, Inforce lights, or Streamlight TLR. Some of my blasters have Surefire GII with the VTAC mount at 10 o'clock.

* Remember that a quick-adjust 2-point sling will help out considerably for the carbine and especially DM training sessions.

* A dump pouch will help for training purposes since we're burning high volume.

* You'll want a method for identifying your mags from everyone else's. Most of us use paint pens for that.

There will be at least one special guest who I'll wait to introduce. Range facilities are locked in for us. I'm really excited about meeting all who are attending, and doing something unique together.

There has been some talk about a 1000yd side match, and we are looking at having some new toys to demo for the course. I think a cash prize 1000yd side match after Day 3's catered lunch will be fun. The range certainly has plenty of steel at the 1000yd range, and they even have a mile gong on the side of the butte in the background. I really can't over-sell the range, as it has taken me a few years to become familiar with all they have there.

We'll also be using some other portions of the range that you will quickly become familiar with when you get there, but I want to leave more as surprises.

Here's the 1000yd and 600yd ranges together:




Some more views of the Cowboy Action Town:

[NugginFutz]

Wel, less than two weeks away, and you'd previously mentioned providing some training material prior to the event, in order to mitigate any need for classroom training. Well, for those of us slow readers, how soon can we expect those materials?

[Variable]

Wel, less than two weeks away, and you'd previously mentioned providing some training material prior to the event, in order to mitigate any need for classroom training. Well, for those of us slow readers, how soon can we expect those materials?

Sorry for the off-topic, but LRRPF52 might not be able to reply, as he seems to currently be a board victim. I think the site has gone wonky and spit him out or something. If you look at his username beside his post above-- he got demoted from "Moderator" to "Guest". I reported it to Bill W. last night, but he's probably asleep being on the Left Coast.

The site has been a little screwy in general of late. I've noticed other member's posts being marked with "Guest" beside their name. I have no idea what that's about.

[bwaites]

Sorry for the off-topic, but LRRPF52 might not be able to reply, as he seems to currently be a board victim. I think the site has gone wonky and spit him out or something. If you look at his username beside his post above-- he got demoted from "Moderator" to "Guest". I reported it to Bill W. last night, but he's probably asleep being on the Left Coast.

The site has been a little screwy in general of late. I've noticed other member's posts being marked with "Guest" beside their name. I have no idea what that's about.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...crewed-Up-.-.-.

[bwaites]

LRRPF52 has been at Sniper Adventure Challenge in Wyoming, he'll be back online today some time, and answering questions.