best automatic powder dispemser?

[GMinor]

According to 6mmbr.com each kernel of H4350 weighs .025 grains. (At least I think that's where I saw this info)

However, with my scales effective +/- .04 grains, I set a target of say 42.80 grains of powder, and if it lands 42.78-42.82 it goes in the case. It's really a trial by error type of thing, once you learn how the scale operates, it's easier to hit a set weight.

[bwaites]

Guys. in the Grendel, .1 grains is roughly equal to .3% of a 30 grain charge. .01 grains is .03%.

Guys are winning national championships with charges thrown by a powder measure, not even scaled. They are winning with brass straight out of the box, too.

If someone can ACTUALLY demonstrate that their loads are inconsistent because their scales don't weigh more accurately than .1gr, I haven't met them yet.

Its about consistency, and with my 7mm WSM and loads thrown by the Chargemaster I've seen ES's in the 6-8fps range. In the Grendel, using first BLC2, then XBR and CFE I typically see spreads below 10. In a gas gun, that's very good, almost exceptional. That's actually below the acceptable error rate of the chronys I use, so I take it with a grain of salt. BUT my 107 Sierra over XBR shoots 100 yard groups below .25 MOA, and 300 yard groups below .5MOA, so I think its close enough.

My 7mm WSM is competitive at 1000 yards with guns that costs 1000's more, and I'm running Winchester brass, (not exactly known to be the most consistent, though I do weight sort it into 2 grain batches). I shoot all my competitive rifles with loads tossed by the Chargemaster. I've modded mine to throw faster than stock, and once I get in a rhythm, can load about 200 rounds per hour on my single stage press. My personal current record is 7 X's in a row at a 1000 yards, so I think the load is OK. (An F class X is 5 inches in diameter, or 1/2 MOA).

[MikeGideon]

Guys. in the Grendel, .1 grains is roughly equal to .3% of a 30 grain charge. .01 grains is .03%.

Guys are winning national championships with charges thrown by a powder measure, not even scaled. They are winning with brass straight out of the box, too.

If someone can ACTUALLY demonstrate that their loads are inconsistent because their scales don't weigh more accurately than .1gr, I haven't met them yet.

Its about consistency, and with my 7mm WSM and loads thrown by the Chargemaster I've seen ES's in the 6-8fps range. In the Grendel, using first BLC2, then XBR and CFE I typically see spreads below 10. In a gas gun, that's very good, almost exceptional. That's actually below the acceptable error rate of the chronys I use, so I take it with a grain of salt. BUT my 107 Sierra over XBR shoots 100 yard groups below .25 MOA, and 300 yard groups below .5MOA, so I think its close enough.

My 7mm WSM is competitive at 1000 yards with guns that costs 1000's more, and I'm running Winchester brass, (not exactly known to be the most consistent, though I do weight sort it into 2 grain batches). I shoot all my competitive rifles with loads tossed by the Chargemaster. I've modded mine to throw faster than stock, and once I get in a rhythm, can load about 200 rounds per hour on my single stage press. My personal current record is 7 X's in a row, so I think the load is OK.

I'm with you. All you gotta do is look at the results of a successful optimum charge weight ladder to figure it out. Variations in case capacity, neck thickness, bullet weight, bearing surface length, etc. can all impact consistency. Reminds me of a call I made to Redding one time. I was using their high end dies, and I thought my bullet runout was measuring a little high. His first question, "How do they shoot?" I had to say, "I don't know". Then, I slapped myself

[stokesrj]

The top competitors spend little time weighing, sorting, and neck turning, but a lot of time behind the trigger in quality practice, learning and relearning how to shoot.
Bob

[GMinor]

I'm with you. All you gotta do is look at the results of a successful optimum charge weight ladder to figure it out.

That is very true. I am a big fan of the OCW. I still like to be as accurate as possible when charging cases.

[GMinor]

The top competitors spend little time weighing, sorting, and neck turning, but a lot of time behind the trigger in quality practice, learning and relearning how to shoot.
Bob

Also very true. Quality trigger time is a much larger factor than hyper accurate loads.

[Klem]

I think there's a consensus here that finer than 0.1gr is not going to make any difference. I pinch about two kernels of powder to move the scale 0.1gr when the Chargemaster throws and over-load. So that's 0.05gr per individual kernel.

Having shot F Class 1,000yd for a number of years I can safely say that 0.1gr is as fine as anyone is interested in, and these are the most competitive, pernickity shooters I have come across.

There's a lot of combined shooting wisdom on this forum and although I have three decades of shooting under my belt I have learned to shut up and listen to others with an open mind. I have learned much so I'll take this opportunity to thank everyone for their experience, and the fact this is a mature group who get on surprisingly well for a forum full of alpha-male, apex-predators.

[LR1955]

I fully understand that train of thought. However, don't you want to eliminate the most amount of variables possible?

Having highly accurate charges leads to extremely low ES/SD's. Keeping more good shots honest.

Having highly accurate charges doesn't mean extremely low ES / SD. All they do is eliminate some variance and no one can tell you how much or if that variance shows up in any practical manner.

Since most Grendel loads use ball powders or very fine extruded powders, any powder measure will produce charges of such good uniformity that no one needs a automatic dispenser.

If you guys are buying the auto dispenser because you are loading large cased magnums with large grained extruded powders, I can certainly see their value. If you are about to spend a couple hundred dollars to load Grendel cases with ball powders, you ought to think about spending that money on bullets and powder more than the automatic dispenser.

Spend you time on the range practicing more and less time reloading.

LR55

[Klem]

Spend you time on the range practicing more and less time reloading.

LR55

An automatic dispenser actually saves you time reloading.

I do take your point however, they cost a few hundred dollars so it's a matter of disposable income and priorities.

[bigbear_98]

I have been thinking about setting up my dillon to load grendel...

I have done ladder tests on my white oak barreled 223, and my 308. On both I can be +/- .2 and still be in the same group at 200. It does make the group slightly larger and the Chrono reads slightly higher, but it is in the same node. Something that changed that on my woa was adding a suppresor to the end. I had worked up the load without. With the 308 the suppresor actually tuned the load more.

I load my 223 with my dillon now. 77gr smk under .75 moa most every time. My 308 I throw with the chargemaster

[LR1955]

An automatic dispenser actually saves you time reloading.

I do take your point however, they cost a few hundred dollars so it's a matter of disposable income and priorities.

Klem:

It takes about 40 seconds for my auto dispenser to dispense a charge. In that 40 seconds I can charge five to eight cases from my powder measure. And given I am using ball powders, those five or eight charges will be just as precise as the one that my auto dispenser provided. The same if I use 8208 XBR.

So, the difference in time is pretty huge. Generally speaking, given my area is ready to go, I can load 100 rounds of Grendel using a single stage operation in the time it takes for my Lyman auto dispenser to warm up and zero itself.

Now, if I want to load a .308 with some sort of long extruded powder to about 45 grains, I first throw about 44 grains of the extruded powder into the auto dispenser pan from my measure and use auto dispenser for the last grain. Things can go pretty fast that way.

LR55

[NugginFutz]

Since most Grendel loads use ball powders or very fine extruded powders, any powder measure will produce charges of such good uniformity that no one needs a automatic dispenser.

If you guys are buying the auto dispenser because you are loading large cased magnums with large grained extruded powders, I can certainly see their value. If you are about to spend a couple hundred dollars to load Grendel cases with ball powders, you ought to think about spending that money on bullets and powder more than the automatic dispenser.

Spend you time on the range practicing more and less time reloading.

LR55

LR55, your opinions on the subject are always valued. I agree that you can easily use a standard powder measure, if you're using some of those powders which measure like sand from an hourglass. (I usually don't.) I would further say that a standard powder measure is the only thing that makes sense, if you're loading up any quantity of "Blaster" rounds, in order to protect the lives of your loved ones from the Zombie Apocalypse. (I often do.)

I would submit, however, that there is much more utility to using an automatic measure.

For starters, whenever I work up a new load for a cartridge, changing charge weights is a snap, and takes literally no setup time. Very convenient. Yes, you can accomplish the same with a scale and powder trickle, but that is where your hands will have to be - one step at a time, so to speak.

Whenever I feel OC about a load, it's easy to feed that inner child. With my setup, I'm seating the previous cartridge while my Chargemaster is beeping to tell me the trickle just finished. A quick glance at the readout to confirm accuracy, and I'm off to the next one.

I load several different types of ammo to precision levels, and I never need to spend time adjusting my powder dispensers. For me, the rewards for getting an automatic dispenser have been frequent.

Having said that, when the Zombies are coming up the street, I invariably spool up my Lock N' Load progressive, and crank out 5.56 by the hundreds. Those shoot under one moa with no trouble, but less than a minute of Zombie would be acceptable, too.

Klem:

It takes about 40 seconds for my auto dispenser to dispense a charge. In that 40 seconds I can charge five to eight cases from my powder measure. And given I am using ball powders, those five or eight charges will be just as precise as the one that my auto dispenser provided. The same if I use 8208 XBR.

So, the difference in time is pretty huge. Generally speaking, given my area is ready to go, I can load 100 rounds of Grendel using a single stage operation in the time it takes for my Lyman auto dispenser to warm up and zero itself.

Now, if I want to load a .308 with some sort of long extruded powder to about 45 grains, I first throw about 44 grains of the extruded powder into the auto dispenser pan from my measure and use auto dispenser for the last grain. Things can go pretty fast that way.

LR55

Warmup time can really take a bite out of your productivity. That is where our setups are different. My Chargemaster doesn't seem to need any warmup time. I've checked my zero at startup, at 10 minutes and at 30. No variances I can see.

Also, I have been able to get 30 grain charges as quickly as 15 seconds, but average of about 25. That said, I readily concede that the bullets in a tray, slapping a powder measure handle up and down, will always produce more rounds per minute than my Chargemaster on its best day.

[COTNTOP]

I got a Lyman and i never turn it off. Just use it to measure close and finish off with a beam scale. The Lyman measures really well. Had a problem and Lyman repaired with no cost.

[Nukes]

[Klem]

Nuggin's setup is similar to mine...The Chargemaster chugs away while I seat the bullet and check OAL of the previous round. Just when I finish that the machine is beeping. I don't know how I can be faster than that unless I use a progressive press for plinkers and forgo the OAL check.

With smaller calibres any delay comes from waiting until the scale settles and gives a second reading after telling you the number of throws done. With extruded powders it sometimes gives and overcharge, but never an undercharge. I then pinch a couple of kernels and wait until it settles. Doing this wastes the bulk of the time I find.

With larger calibres I agree it takes longer for the machine to throw. With .338Lap I go round to my mates place with the Chargemaster and he sets his up as well. Then there are two machines going at once to throw the 90grains needed. Speeds things up.

Before I got the Chargemaster and there was a major comp coming up in F Class I pulled out the old magnetic balance-beam scales and did '55's' method of throwing a deliberate underload using the powder dispenser from a Lee Loadmaster Progressive, then trickling up to the exact amount. This takes time but by using the old balance beam instead of digital you can be absolutely certain every load is the same. I do this inside the house (not shed) with all the doors and windows shut. How's that for OC?! The Mrs is not too impressed when I head indoors with a bucket full of grubby man-toys.

I don't load rifle cartridges on the Lee progressive because there is built-in run-out in the design. The centerline of the bottom plate and die is not parallel with the ram. The smaller the diameter you go the more severe the run-out.