Lilja Group Buy Barrel Accuracy

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  • calshipbuilder

    Lilja Group Buy Barrel Accuracy

    Thought I'd start a thread to see how everyone's Lilja builds end up.

    Here's the build list:
    • Lilja 20" 740 1-9 Twist Crowned
    • Rainier Ultramatch upper
    • Troy Handguard
    • SLR Rifleworks Gas Block
    • Wilson Combat Gas tube (at tube is a tube, but hey, why not)
    • JP bolt carrier
    • Carbine buffer with rifle spring
    • MagPul PRS
    • BAD Safety and Pins
    • monsterman grip (at least the weather is really nice)
    • Giessele SDE
    • Sightron 6-24 FFP
    • Barrett ExRings


    I'm gonna switch to an Ace Skeleton stock to fix the balance, the PRS is too heavy on the mid weight barrel.

    Build went together quite smoothly, we shall see how accuracy shakes out. Shot ~8 groups today, most were Blc2 over 123 amax in a hornady case with CCI BR4 primers. The bad one in the center is factory AA 130 Sirocco, nice that they stabilize in the 9 twist, but accuracy is poor, the third bull (not shown) had a 3" 8 shot group with them.

    I'm likely responsible for a good deal of the inaccuracy. I have been shooting bolt guns for the past couple months so it took a bit to remember the recoil impulse and 2 stage trigger. With some lapua cases, and 8208 I think 1/2 minute is possible.

    Several times I could cloverleaf 3 rounds, but the rest would hit wide, or start a new cloverleaf.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Guest; 02-02-2014, 01:34 AM.

  • #2
    Nice report. Something I see right away that might be limiting you:

    Your forward scope ring is bridging from the upper to the handguard.

    Did you check if the receiver face was square by any chance? What was the extension mate-up like with the upper?

    Comment

    • calshipbuilder

      #3
      Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
      Nice report. Something I see right away that might be limiting you:

      Your forward scope ring is bridging from the upper to the handguard.

      Did you check if the receiver face was square by any chance? What was the extension mate-up like with the upper?
      Didn't check the face, I'm trusting that the ultramatch meets their description:

      The most critical features are:
      • Parallelism between the picatinny rail, main center bore and the centerline of the mounting lugs
      • Perpendicularity between the centerline of the lugs and the barrel mating face (at the front of the threads)
      • Flatness of the barrel mating face
      • We are holding .0003 or better on all of those measurements. Competitor uppers are between .001 and .003 on the perpendicularity and parallelism.


      Extension fit in the receiver was snug, but not tight, I did not bed it with loctite

      The front ring is plenty tight and the fit between the handguard and receiver is flush. I don't think anything is moving between the upper, handguard, and barrel nut. I can't move the front ring back due to eye relief, do you think moving it further forward onto the handguard will make a better mount? Everything is nice and tight on the rifle.

      Comment

      • montana
        Chieftain
        • Jun 2011
        • 3209

        #4
        Your second picture with the caliber is sub MOA. You can measure from center to center of the farthest two holes or measure on the outside of the farthest two holes as you are in the picture and then subtract the caliber.

        Is there a reason your using a carbine buffer with a rifle length stock and recoil spring ?
        Last edited by montana; 01-30-2014, 03:28 AM.

        Comment

        • calshipbuilder

          #5
          Saw this thread about it:



          I get the issue, but I still don't think its going to cause problem for me. Here is why:

          I know this probably isn't the best way to build and upper, but its what has worked for me. When assembling the upper, I used the front scope ring (1, not both using the scope as an alignment tool) , to align the upper and handguard together before I tightened the handguard onto the barrel nut.

          Comment

          • calshipbuilder

            #6
            Originally posted by montana View Post
            Your second picture with the caliber is sub MOA. You can measure from center to center of the farthest two holes or measure on the outside of the farthest two holes as you are in the picture and then subtract the caliber.
            Yep, I know, 1.037 -.264=.773, which is close to 3/4 moa. I didn't try to measure it exactly because making a point about one decent group would be misleading. It shows some potential, but I wouldn't call this a 3/4 minute gun... yet

            On my first grendel build I had a cycling issue until I switched to a carbine buffer, its was jus a fix. On this rifle I just started with a carbine buffer to begin with. I may go to a rifle buffer, but was able to get the gas block adjusted so it runs fine. I think the lower mass of the carbine buffer helps mitigate the secondary recoil impulse from the action cycling, but I am really just guessing.
            Last edited by Guest; 01-30-2014, 05:08 AM.

            Comment

            • peligro113
              Bloodstained
              • Mar 2013
              • 39

              #7
              I have the same barrel except mine is a 1/8 twist I went to the range the day before yesterday and I was not please with my accuracy. I was getting 1.5-2 moa at 100 yards with Hornady 123 Amax and around 2-2.5 moa with some loads I was working up which consisted of 123 SST's, new Hornady brass, cci primers, and 8208XBR. I think it was a combination of a bad stock trigger, it was probably the worst stock trigger I have had the displeasure to use, the weather it was 40 F but felt colder because of a 10-15 mph wind, I didn't like the reticle on the Redfield revenge scope which I borrowed from wife's rifle, and I forgot to print out some targets before I left the house so I had to stop at the store to pick up some targets and the only ones left sucked ass.


              Not a good range day for me but it's better than going to work. ;0

              I'm going to load some more rounds with CFE223 and try them out.
              Last edited by peligro113; 01-30-2014, 03:46 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                A carbine buffer in a rifle extension tube will usually result in damage to the lower receiver. You will have too much rearward travel of the carrier, beyond the design limitations of intended carrier travel. The buffer is meant to kiss the rear of the extension to reverse the inertia and provide enough forward momentum to strip the next round and chamber it fully.

                The way that this particular handguard clamps to the barrel nut is not conducive to a solid mating to where one would bridge their scope over. The G forces under recoil are substantial, and will find the weak point. This is why optics and mount manufacturers recommend against mounting in this method.

                Without purchasing another cantilever scope mount, you could try extending your adjustable butt plate on the PRS, then moving the rings and scope back until you have the forward scope ring on the upper completely.

                Were you using the monopod in the rear when shooting those groups? You might consider trying a rear bag if that was the case.

                Comment

                • GMinor
                  Warrior
                  • Sep 2013
                  • 159

                  #9
                  CSB, glad to hear the new build is working out.

                  Wife finally had that 3rd baby so time is limited, but hopefully sometime soon here we can get together and punch some holes in stuff, either Pala or Southbay.

                  I won't have the Creedmoor back any time soon (lead time on barrel), but the Grendel should hold its own.

                  Comment

                  • GMinor
                    Warrior
                    • Sep 2013
                    • 159

                    #10


                    Gotta get that scope ring off the hand guard. I was able to get this scope mounted 90% money. If I had 1/2" more LOP it would be 100% good to go.

                    Comment

                    • calshipbuilder

                      #11
                      Monopod was off for the groups. The rear was bagged and the bipod set low. Shots were from prone.

                      I hear what you are saying about the buffer, but with a couple thosand rounds on my first grendel, I have no issue. But its easy enough to slap a rifle buffer in there and see how it goes. Ill do that for my next trip out.

                      The scope bridging issue is trickier. Im taking off the prs so lop adjustment will not be so easy.

                      So if my handguard is trying to flex independant of the reciever, that means I am putting stress on the front ring Picatinny clamp. If I moved the ring further forward, completely to the handguard, the flex would probably move to the scope (bad). The rings I am using are pretty beefy, but I don't understand how much force is in play here (anyone want to run an FEA for me ;-) and if the ring can take the stress indefinitely or fail quickly. Guess I will find out. If my scope loosens up, I will report back.

                      Comment

                      • Drifter
                        Chieftain
                        • Mar 2011
                        • 1662

                        #12
                        Consider a cantilever scope mount, as you will likely not see consistently good accuracy with any part of the scope mount on the handguard.

                        Also, regarding this:

                        Originally posted by calshipbuilder View Post
                        Shot ~8 groups today, most were Blc2 over 123 amax in a hornady case with CCI BR4 primers. The bad one in the center is factory AA 130 Sirocco, nice that they stabilize in the 9 twist, but accuracy is poor, the third bull (not shown) had a 3" 8 shot group with them.
                        If you shot A-max or SST after the Scirocco bullets, it's not surprising to me that accuracy suffered. While Scirocco bullets are good-performing game bullets, they tend to copper-foul a barrel quite quickly, wreaking havoc with any ammo that follows. I suggest cleaning the copper from the barrel before shooting again.
                        Drifter

                        Comment

                        • aclark
                          Warrior
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 184

                          #13
                          Anytime you load the bipod you could be changing the alignment of the scope. Its not the force on the front ring, its the force on the handguard in general. The main reason for having a free float handguard is to keep that force from interacting with the barrel itself, but now you introduced the front ring into the equation.

                          Comment

                          • montana
                            Chieftain
                            • Jun 2011
                            • 3209

                            #14
                            I just got back from the range and after a painful "LOL" barrel break in period, I shot a 5 shot .586 group at 100 yards with Horn. 123gr. Amax. I recommend following Lilja's barrel break in instructions. At the begging I had a lot of copper fouling and at the end I had no trace of copper fouling at all. I am very happy with the Lilja barrel . Thanks again cory for making this happen.

                            Comment

                            • peligro113
                              Bloodstained
                              • Mar 2013
                              • 39

                              #15
                              I had better results today with my barrel since the temp was warmer and I only had winds if about 2 MPH

                              Factory 123 Amax



                              123 SST 30.5g CFE223


                              123 SST 31.0g CFE223


                              Last edited by peligro113; 02-02-2014, 01:08 AM.

                              Comment

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