Of Reamers, Chambers, and Real World measurements

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  • #16
    Originally posted by dammitman View Post
    ...the one thing i am really unsure about is their description of what they are going to do with the barrel. they are going to "scrape" it. WTF is scrape it? they described to me that they have a tool bit now that will as i see it just removing more material from the throat. i sure hope this is a good idea.
    You could ask them about option of using a SAAMI-compliant finishing reamer. The effort involved is the same, and you will then have a barrel that works like the vast majority of Grendel barrels. They should have one already in their tool chest because I understand it is a normal part of a barrel maker's tools.

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    • Walter
      Warrior
      • Jan 2013
      • 184

      #17
      Then Satern would have to admit the liberty barrels made so far are not SAMMI compliant. Then there would have to be a recall. That would cost them more than they want to pay.

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      • #18
        Nevertheless, the question needs to be asked.

        The best world has the answer "Sure!"

        Other answers are possible but then how does one answer the question: "How does one who purchased a standard that is measurably out of spec get the item corrected to meet the implied or express contract?"

        The indications so far are that this 'scraping' does not create a SAAMI-compliant throat and chamber that good money was paid to get.

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        • Walter
          Warrior
          • Jan 2013
          • 184

          #19
          It has been stated that Satern has said the short chamder is SAAMI compliant. That is why they are scRAPEing them. If they state the new chamber is SAAMI then they are libel. They do not want to pay for recall.

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          • #20
            Your logic is easy to follow.

            But, the company could take the position that only a small fraction are truly outside of spec, and offer to correct to a SAAMI-compliant chamber for those few.

            This gives them a chance to have it both ways. Clinging to the notion that these demonstrably out of spec chambers are compliant damages their professional reputation. There is, and probably already has been, a price for that path. Correcting those 'few' chambers to the spec might be the only way to get some of their reputation restored.

            Using the term 'scraping' does not sound like language a professional would use, so they can also back away from that with the claim that an illiterate rep was using the term.

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            • FlatsFlite
              Bloodstained
              • Nov 2013
              • 51

              #21
              Exact wording from Satern:

              First response: "Since our chambers and reamers are to SAAMI specifications, this is not considered a defective barrel, so return shipment labels will not be issued out. However, we will adjust the throats free of charge. "

              Second message: "Steve had a new reamer made that will scrape the throat deeper. We are offering this free of charge, but I do need to charge return shipment for customers who decide to send their barrel back to us."

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              • SHORT-N-SASSY
                Warrior
                • Apr 2013
                • 629

                #22
                "In a world driven by the almighty dollar we strive to make the best product we can at a fair price. Honesty and integrity in all of our dealings is the rule we live by." --- saternmachining.com Home Page.

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                • Walter
                  Warrior
                  • Jan 2013
                  • 184

                  #23
                  JA Smith. I have seen posts that the short throat has been the standard for liberty barrels for some time. I would guess that 1000 or so barrels have been made with the short throat. They are all made that way. I would guess it would cost 120,000$ to fix them.

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                  • #24
                    Yes, that could be big bucks.

                    The total might be less when we recognize the reality is that some folks, particularly those that reload, are comfortable with the chamber as made. So, even though it is an inadvertent wildcat they will keep the barrel. We have seen multiple posts to that effect.

                    There is probably a larger group who don't care and probably don't know.

                    That's why a reasonable compromise could be to acknowledge that some are smaller than average, and those can be corrected with a SAAMI-spec finishing reamer, 'scraped' or made into another wildcat format.

                    These guys really need to find a way out of this that allows folks who thought they bought a rifle that will accurately and reliably digest factory ammunition to have one. The alternative chambers and scraped throats might do that. These alternatives will still not be what the contract says when the company stamped "6.5 Grendel" on the barrels.

                    Satern really needs to find a way to deliver a SAAMI-compliant chamber to those who thought they bought one and want it made right.

                    Comment

                    • Walter
                      Warrior
                      • Jan 2013
                      • 184

                      #25
                      Remember once there is a recall there should be no cost to customer. Everyone will jump on the bandwagon. The statement from Satern would read like. We found some chambers in our liberty barrel are not in spec. This could cause high pressure. If you want your barrel inpected we will send a prepaid packaging to return your barrel to us.

                      Most will send them in.

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                      • SHORT-N-SASSY
                        Warrior
                        • Apr 2013
                        • 629

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Walter View Post
                        . . . We found some chambers in our liberty barrel are not in spec. This could cause high pressure. . . .
                        This SAFETY DEFECT would have been caught by Quality Control, at a first-rate barrel maker/supplier, and corrected, prior to shipping to the Customer, rendering this issue moot.
                        Last edited by SHORT-N-SASSY; 02-17-2014, 01:06 AM.

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                        • PrecisionFirearms
                          Warrior
                          • Apr 2011
                          • 767

                          #27
                          Barrel and Throat Comparison with Pictures by Precision Firearms

                          Slide 1.jpgSlide 2.jpgSlide 3.jpgSlide 4.jpgSlide 5.jpgSlide 6.jpgSlide 7.jpgSlide 8.jpgSlide 9.jpg

                          This is my response to those that alleged that we can't be using a True Grendel Chamber. Also this comparison barrel was submitted by Walter on the forums. Hopefully this answers some questions.

                          Precision Firearms
                          Mark Hostetter
                          Last edited by PrecisionFirearms; 02-28-2014, 12:43 AM.
                          "Precision - The Pinnacle of Perfection."

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                          • PrecisionFirearms
                            Warrior
                            • Apr 2011
                            • 767

                            #28
                            Precision Firearms Barrel Inspection Station

                            IMG_0032.jpg

                            We don't always use the monitor as we can see more detail with the scope only.

                            Mark Hostetter
                            Precision Firearms
                            "Precision - The Pinnacle of Perfection."

                            Comment

                            • bwaites
                              Moderator
                              • Mar 2011
                              • 4445

                              #29
                              Precision Firearms and Lilja Barrels have both issued statements:

                              The thread pertaining to possible chamber issues has become impossibly complex, and has wandered quite a bit. This thread shall serve as a continuation with a hopefully brief condensation of the previous thread. The whole issue seems to have occurred because some members of a group barrel buy from Liberty barrels, a

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                All throats are tapered. Most at 1.5 degree.
                                The Grendel should have a .5 degree to start and then get steeper when it changes to 1.5 degree. It's tough to see a change from .5 to 1.5 degree with a borescope.

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