Lightweight Hunting Bullets

[JASmith]

Ayup!!

[Bigfoot]

We know how the 120 and 123 SMKs work. Anybody try the 107 SMK on game at around 2700 fps? It's a bit softer than the Scenar.

BTW I believe 2800 with a good BC hunting bullet would do it.

In the 6.8 the 85 E-tip and 85 TSX don't sell as well as the 95 TTSX, 100 and 110 Accubonds and the other 110s. Seems like shooters like a balance of velocity (on game performance) and BC (range). For the 6.5.. 85 or 90 gr solids? Bondeds possibly 10 g higher.

[Drifter]

So Drifter, since you might have a good feel for both the 6.5 and the 6.8 markets, how do you feel the 65G is best marketed to the uncommitted who are weighing both cartridges?

Make it simple for the potential buyer to comprehend. Focus on the strength of the Grendel (its bore size). Compare downrange data. It's the long-range potential that differentiates the two cartridges.

Spend some time on the snipershide forum (which primarily focuses on precision and distance shooting of larger cartridges), and see how many seconds go by before you see the 6.5mm bore discussed in some manner, and how many days go by before someone mentions the 270 Winchester (or 6.8 SPC). Of course, other bore sizes like 7mm and 30-caliber get discussed frequently too, but seldom anything 277. Ever notice that there is no short-action 308-based commercialized SAAMI cartridge for the 277 bore?

For a potential buyer considering the AR-15 platform for medium game, there are really only two obvious choices. That really narrows the playing field since there are no real 24, 25, 28, or 30 caliber SAAMI contenders. So instead of trying to market a cartridge and differentiate it from dozens of others, the Grendel really competes with only one. That's a big luxury, and a huge opportunity.

If Joe Average recognizes that the Grendel beats the competition and has the capability to take out Ole Mossy Horns at 400 yards, he's not gonna question the cartridge's effectiveness at 100 yards.

So again, simply show a downrange comparison of the cartridges in all marketing efforts (print, Internet, television, etc). Or show that the Grendel has as much energy at 400 yards as the competition does at 300 (or whatever the case may be). Even if game is rarely taken by the average hunter at 400 yards, don't we all want that capability if the right circumstances present themselves?

And wouldn't those long-range numbers look even more favorable if we had that hypothetical 108gr Nosler ABLR?

I'm not suggesting that we deny those who want light fast bullets, but the strength of the Grendel (and any 6.5mm cartridge) is its downrange ballistics. And IMHO, the Grendel doesn't yet have a hunting bullet tailored for its case size to really capitalize on that strength.

[JASmith]

We know how the 120 and 123 SMKs work. Anybody try the 107 SMK on game at around 2700 fps? It's a bit softer than the Scenar.

BTW I believe 2800 with a good BC hunting bullet would do it.

In the 6.8 the 85 E-tip and 85 TSX don't sell as well as the 95 TTSX, 100 and 110 Accubonds and the other 110s. Seems like shooters like a balance of velocity (on game performance) and BC (range). For the 6.5.. 85 or 90 gr solids? Bondeds possibly 10 g higher.

We can easily get 2800 with 90 gr bullets and with some stretch with 100 gr all-copper bullets. Any premium bullet in this weight range would likely work for even the largest deer (Ideal Bullet Weight).

A bonded version of the 95 grain VMax would have a BC of about .37 which gives a fair bit of reach.

Making an e-Tip version of the 100 gr Ballistic Tip would produce an 84 -85 grain bullet with a BC of about .32

An all-copper bullet with a nose like the 123gr SST could have a BC of about .38 with similar reach to the Bonded "V-Max".

[Bigfoot]

Or just bond the 100 g A-MAX with it's .390 BC. Not as good as an ABLR but it'll work.

A whole lot of deer have dropped to .25 cal 100 gr cup and core bullets in a century.

[sneaky one]

I knew BFoot would drag me in here, JAS too. As to the bonded pill, in a lighter wt. -I made a bunch of Interbonds up, 95-110 gr.

The best wts. that I have tested in the Gmx is 85 -105 gr. RL 7 was used in the 85gmx, I hit 3095 easily. A 76 grn. hit 3216. The need for speed is there.

2.4 yrs. ago, mseric & I popped a 91 grn. Gmx thru h2o jugs, we added a few extra gallon jugs=we could not stop that one. We found 1 petal.

I made all the wt. ranges up, mostly for closer in hunts. There has been minimal chats to me in years of the lighter pills,,,that is until about 3 months ago.

The idea is to have a many choices to cover all of our hunting needs, size of game, distance , etc.

So, yeah, everyone chime in about the lighter pills. Check my pic albums before you go all negative tho.

I have had great success with the lighter Gmx units. In fact, it's my main hunt pill now.

We just got hit here with a proposal to ban lead based pills. I have been on these tweaks for 4.5 yrs. I have many pills out to a many forum guys here, for testing.

Feedback has been somewhat sparce. I have been promoting the 6.5 cal., and specifically the Grendel round for 6 yrs. now. My own father balked at me in disgust when I told him what I bought.
The stigma of WWII , and the Carcano ideas of the Japs,,, ???? That was then, this is now.

I sent a large group of Interbonds, GMX, and a few other pills to California- to be tested in a controlled fashion=thru Ballistic Gel, using my safe data- to get a true handle upon what the best monolithic, alloyed wts. are for the Grr, as compared to lead based pills. Full speed, & low speed impacts.

Rick o shay, I'll let you have the honor of explaining the hi speed , slow motion camera, etc. We're gonna have a movie! It's gonna be awesome to watch, oh- there will be a test at the end of the show-so bring a No. 2 pencil along!

A lighter Gilding metal bullet of say, 95 grns.,,, has done the same damage to a med. - lg. sized whitetail, as a 120 gr. lead based pill. It's my fave wt. in these units.

I rarely shoot more than 3 deer per yr., so $1.50 is worth it to me, and family as to not ingest lead.

RS still has an opp. to pop a few hogs in GA, using the 70-85 class of Gmx's I sent. Let's keep on this.

[JASmith]

Or just bond the 100 g A-MAX with it's .390 BC. Not as good as an ABLR but it'll work.

A whole lot of deer have dropped to .25 cal 100 gr cup and core bullets in a century.

And a bunch to 100 gr .243 C&C in 50 years.

Bonding it will make it better for large deer and hogs.

[sneaky one]

Drifter, guess what's full? Pm box man!

[Drifter]

Drifter, guess what's full? Pm box man!

Taken care of. Sorry 'bout that!

[sneaky one]

Thanks, lets all check the count of our pm boxes., back to the lighter pill show..

[Bigfoot]

I knew BFoot would drag me in here, JAS too.

When you want to know ask those who've already been there. Lots of info in that post, thanks.

The idea is to have a many choices to cover all of our hunting needs, size of game, distance , etc.

In a nutshell yeah. I want more diversity cause sometimes (mostly) I only need the equivalent of a 250 Savage(that can still reach out over a clearcut). Plenty of long heavies for when I want to reach WAY out or for a backup elk gun. This bore has a dearth of light hunting bullet w decent BCs like most other small calibers have.

I like JASmiths idea of one or more COMMON PROFILES. C and Cs, bondeds and monos. Say 100 g A-MAX or BT, 95 or 100 g bonded and 85-90 ish mono. Brilliant. THAT'S versatility. .4 BC would do fine. Higher would be even better tho and really convert some over. I do think the ABLR has the better nose and tail design tho, it has everything we want except 25+ too many gr in the center. That's a tough one to fix unless Sneaky can grind it off the tail.

You know I had some dental bridgework done because of a lost tooth a couple months back. They used some great molding material that sets up fast and accurate. Poke some 123 SSTs or 108s in some to get the profile, cut the bullets down till the weight is reached and use the plastic poured into the mold for the tips. Find a way to attach the tips concentrically and you're done. Could be done, too bad I suck at plastic. In a factory they'd give the tips long projections/inserts and drill the bullets accordingly. Yep banging the long-poly-nose idea again, I think it's the key to those higher BCs.

[sneaky one]

Send some ABLR's to me when the hit the stores, I bet I can get them to 105 range, stability will be interesting on that one,
I had good luck with the orig Accobonds at 105 gr.

[k280]

send me a PM with your shipping info and I will send you some. Let me know how many I have one box on hand.

[stokesrj]

I'm not on the light weight for caliber band wagon, not cup and core, not monolithic. I don't want to discourage any experimentation, that is how discoveries are made, but my over 50 years now in the field experience, lead me to believe that moderate velocity, and heavy for caliber bullets of conventional construction are superior over the long haul, and over the varied experiences we all have. I'm lately spending a lot of time in Europe, hunting as part of a hunting family, and understanding their culture, their conditions, and their concerns given the circumstances. I view the European experience as important, this is where the 6.5x55 came from and is the caliber most aligned with the 6.5 Grendel, when considering performance on game.
To my mind, it is a very high challenge to come up with a superior combination to the 123 Hornady SST in the 6.5 Grenedel. It kills well, penetrates well, expands well, produces little groups well, performs over long distances well, performs as short distance well, has a forgiving ogive profile, bucks the wind well, and most importantly shoots well from a wide variety of barrels and chambers.
There might be superior bullets for 200 yards and under, there might be better bullets for long range air penetration, I doubt there is a better bullet overall.
Bob

[JASmith]

Well said!