6.5 Grendel Variants, Good or Bad?

[NugginFutz]

I have two barrels from BHW - one in 5.56 and one in .264 LBC. My ordering experience was superb, the waits on both were very reasonable (under 6 weeks) and the factory support was spot on and very timely. Both barrels have delivered witnessed phenomenal, sub-caliber groups. Further, there is no barrel on the market that I am aware of that runs cleaner. If you are going to go with a non-Grendel throat, I don't see how you can go wrong with the BHW product.

As far as bolts are concerned, literally any Grendel bolt will work in this upper. I have bolts from both Les Baer and from Tactical Ammunition, a BHW affiliate. Both have the standard .136" recess bolt faces, and neither work the brass at all. Fired brass only needs a .003" setback, so headspace has never been a concern. BHW currently chambers their .264's for the bolts with .124" recess (Type I) as the default, and they will gladly cut a chamber headspaced for the Type II, .136" bolt.

Just my .02.

[96superflow]

I have two barrels from BHW - one in 5.56 and one in .264 LBC. My ordering experience was superb, the waits on both were very reasonable (under 6 weeks) and the factory support was spot on and very timely. Both barrels have delivered witnessed phenomenal, sub-caliber groups. Further, there is no barrel on the market that I am aware of that runs cleaner. If you are going to go with a non-Grendel throat, I don't see how you can go wrong with the BHW product.

As far as bolts are concerned, literally any Grendel bolt will work in this upper. I have bolts from both Les Baer and from Tactical Ammunition, a BHW affiliate. Both have the standard .136" recess bolt faces, and neither work the brass at all. Fired brass only needs a .003" setback, so headspace has never been a concern. BHW currently chambers their .264's for the bolts with .124" recess (Type I) as the default, and they will gladly cut a chamber headspaced for the Type II, .136" bolt.

Just my .02.

Now that is the information I was looking for. The actual differences between type I and type II. BHW listed theirs as a type I with no explanation of what that ment. If I understand you correctly, they only thing I will need is a bolt with that .124" recess for it.

If I am incorrect, just tell me outright.

[96superflow]

Went ahead and order a BHW 18" 1-9 w/ polygonal rifling. I was hoping for 1-8 but this will do just fine for what I want it for. Got it from ammo surplus. 260 shipped and comes with the upper receiver. Now I just have to order the bolt for it and then a couple mags. My main concern was to get the main stuff then search for deal as far as handguards and what not. I will start my thread and post up some pics when it arrives.

[NugginFutz]

Now that is the information I was looking for. The actual differences between type I and type II. BHW listed theirs as a type I with no explanation of what that ment. If I understand you correctly, they only thing I will need is a bolt with that .124" recess for it.

If I am incorrect, just tell me outright.

You've got it right. And that looks like a smoking deal, as well.

Be sure to update us as your build progresses, with the obligatory pictures.

[bwaites]

Went ahead and order a BHW 18" 1-9 w/ polygonal rifling. I was hoping for 1-8 but this will do just fine for what I want it for. Got it from ammo surplus. 260 shipped and comes with the upper receiver. Now I just have to order the bolt for it and then a couple mags. My main concern was to get the main stuff then search for deal as far as handguards and what not. I will start my thread and post up some pics when it arrives.

Hopefully you will be able to find decent bolts to that spec. Most people have had mixed results at best. Looking forward to the build and results!

[96superflow]

Tactical Ammunition has it in stock for 70. That is the plan on where to get it from. I would have held off it I couldn't find where some one actually posted specs on how deep the cut was made.

[tackdriver]

I had a type 1 bhw and it ran like a top with a model 1 sales 7.62*39 bolt. I have recently put one together with the SAA BHW barrel but it hasn't been to the range yet.

[danm]

Tactical Ammunition has it in stock for 70. That is the plan on where to get it from. I would have held off it I couldn't find where some one actually posted specs on how deep the cut was made.

I got my 7.62X39 NiB from Hamlund Tactical for the same price and it runs good but only have 50 rounds on it... I have an NiB BCG so it only made sense...

[96superflow]

I got my 7.62X39 NiB from Hamlund Tactical for the same price and it runs good but only have 50 rounds on it... I have an NiB BCG so it only made sense...

Thank you for that info. My shop is getting ready to carry BPM NIB BCG and I was actually going to look this morning for a NIB Bolt.


Edit: Just checked their site, and couldn't locate it. I sent them an email to see if they could assist.

[danm]

Thank you for that info. My shop is getting ready to carry BPM NIB BCG and I was actually going to look this morning for a NIB Bolt.


Edit: Just checked their site, and couldn't locate it. I sent them an email to see if they could assist.

Yeah, just looked... no bolt on their site anymore... weird.

[pinzgauer]

One issue is that we really haven't defined what the Grendel is.

Is it the cartridge? If it is, then all the rifles that fire that cartridge are Grendels. In its most basic form, I think this is the case.

Is it the chamber? If so, then the SAAMI chamber and only the SAAMI chamber is a Grendel. Anything else is a variant.

Is it the entire system, a SAAMI cartridge fed into a SAAMI chamber? In that case, only SAAMI chambers fed by SAAMI compliant ammo is a Grendel. Everything else is a variant.

From a practical perspective, independent of throat/neck nuances, if a rifle is designed for and can safely shoot known good SAAMI spec ammo, then I'd call it a Grendel.

If it requires special loadings, dies, or treatments different from SAAMI ammo, then it is not.

This is the historical approach with other calibers. Remember .280 Remington vs 7mm Express vs 7mm/06. The name is immaterial.

Likewise, there are probably more throat & neck variations in bolt guns mfgs in common calibers than the nuances we are talking about. Even headspace differences.

A long throated military 8x57 optimized for 220g bullets is still a 7.92 Mauser, just as a modern Ruger/Browning/Win/Rem mfg one would be with a far shorter throat and tighter neck for modern bullets.

Even in .308 bolt guns there is variation.

I'm not keen on the way some of the grendel variants came about, but if they can safely and accurately shoot factory SAAMI (Hornady Grendel, AA brass, AA Steel, etc) I'd call it a grendel.

If someone starts making Grendel II loadings which only work in sloppy throated rifles or custom chambers, then I'd call it a wildcat variant. Just like .280 AI, 8mm/06, etc.

Just my view. I think we may be a bit too sensitive on this since it's entangled with the old mfg issues and the recent Liberty mis-manufacture of short throats.

[hydrotech]

+1 on the grendel cats thread! I'd like to have more information on them....specifically which will shoot factory ammo for the sammi spec chamber, which chambers work best for which bullets. A description of how the chamber came to be and why...sounds great! Maybe someone could make a spread sheet showing how they are the same or different than the sammi 6.5 grendel for different criteria.

[Redraider]

My personal opinion...............I think the human frailties of greed, envy and ego, all came to bear on this cartridge. Had they not, we would not be having these huge discussions and complaints and problems. And yes, I do feel there are real problems involved with this cartridge ( in it's variations)! I believe I have one, as I have not had the time to verify, I can only surmise at this point. But, think back at all the discussions that have arisen due to "problematic" rifles and how many of those were NOT the Grendel.

Just my opinion, but the variants should never have been, period

Thanks for listening

Redraider

[LRRPF52]

There are always going to be people who want to tweak with designs. That's why we addressed this in the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks. http://ar15buildbox.com/Sitemap.html

As long as you know what chamber you have, and what it will or won't eat, and how to load for it if you hand load, you're on solid ground.

It's easier for reamer makers to use a conventional throat, so I understand why there are variants.

[PrecisionFirearms]

We have 7.62x39 bolts or otherwise called Type I. These are available in Black Nitride or Nickel Boron. Made from 9310 Steel.

Just like our 6.5 Grendel Bolts but with a .125 Bolt Face Depth.

Price is 75 for Black Nitride, 85 For Nickel Boron.