PDW trunk gun quest

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  • #76
    For a societal meltdown or disaster, I think it's realistic to think about a semi-permissive environment:

    1) Some people will still be going to work
    2) Crime more rampant
    3) Home protection will rely on hardened structures and good neighborhood integrity, gating the hood, checkpoints, etc.
    4) Likelihood of encountering violence outside the neighborhood is significantly increased.
    5) You won't be able to walk around with an M4 slung on your body, unless in a group doing the same.
    6) Pistols will increase in value exponentially.

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    • #77
      Your points are well-taken.

      The scary thing is those environments exist even today!

      Look at parts of any major metropolitan area, and you'll find places where law-enforcement is severely constrained. The constraints go so far as one suburb of Richmond (California, not Virginia) sued to bar police from their area on the grounds that law-enforcement was prejudicial. Who provides civil protection in those areas?

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      • #78
        I gained a lot of perspective on this after reading the continual AAR written by a guy who lived in Argentina after SHTF there...partial societal meltdown after an economic collapse. Very interesting read:



        Think about a large city being cut off from the normal supply of produce, take LA or New York for examples, or even DFW. Where I'm at, in the Salt Lake Valley, it is quite abnormal. I'd say a good 30% or more of the population has their own gardens and year's supply of food storage, and Utah is a very gun-friendly State, with 25% of all eligible adults having a CCW in 2007...not the place to step out and be a gangsta.

        In many of these big cities, LE would be the first ones targeted by the bottom-feeder useful idiots with nothing to lose...riots supported by well-placed shooters covering them, targeted hits by career gang-bangers, lashing out by frustrated imbeciles, and things of that nature. Since National Guard units are deployed all over tarnation, they will be of limited help, and the enemy within has cut military strength progressively since the Bush Sr. administration.

        Combine the enemy within in a coordinated effort with external enemies, and you could really start to lose sleep, especially since Cuba has been reserved as a strategic staging area by the communists since 1959, with full support from the UN and our European "allies". Now that China has occupied several former Soviet bases in Cuba, it makes me wonder about the timeline we're looking at, especially since they purchased the locks to the Panama Canal after Clinton honored Carter's signing of it away in 1999.

        China has very limited maritime military capabilities, but is dominant in commercial shipping volume, so how hard would it be to simply marshal forces covertly via normal shipping activities? Especially with full complicity of a marxist-controlled media in the US, who successfully hid the fact that Clinton is a rapist, murderer, drug-runner, cocaine addict, led violent demonstrations against the US Embassy in England when he dodged the draft, Clinton isn't really his name, robbed the White House upon leaving office, etc., etc. How hard would it be to hide these movements from the majority of the people?

        China is facing the absolute reality of societal collapse due to the income disparity between the burgeoning interior and coastal populations, lack of infrastructure, and demoralization from 60 years of communist oppression. They don't have enough food to feed their own people, which is not a good position to be in as global food prices inflate. Pressure has to be released in some manner...just reality.

        In our hemisphere, the mass unrest caused by the narco-traffickers, who could have been manipulated by a foreign source to withhold $700 billion from the normal laundering cycle in 2007 and thus triggering the credit crunch (banks with no cash who were used to recovering it through money-laundering of the drug trade), has resulted in a full-blown war in Mexico, with casualties rivaling both Middle East/Central Asian theaters of war in the past 2 years. That's not a good scenario to have on our Southern border gents.

        Then look at the current administration using the useful idiots to conduct massive and illegal protests, warming up for the big cahuna burger in the 2012 election next year, with nothing but violence as the end result of the recipe....

        Yeah, you need a good plan for the future. A car gun is just one important possible tool in that kitbag, but where you live, your food supply and normal goods supply are equally important, under the umbrella of like-minded neighbors with families they would like to see live through their normal life spans. Keep in mind that a significant number of Congress think that socialism is a good idea, and have been passing legislation to that effect for a century...from both parties.

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        • #79
          LR
          I didn't get half way through your post and the thought of Chinia underwriting our debts poped up maybe I need to load the truck up and start heading to the Ozarks.

          To support the posting of gated communities this is rampant in South FL and have their own patrol in addition to LE.

          What really kills me is just how easy this decay "could" occur

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          • #80
            We are in the "crisis" stage of the long-term chess game launched by the communists 100 years ago. Stages 1-3 have already been fully achieved:

            Stage 1: Demoralize the West by preaching Marxism/Leninism as the superior moral/political/economic model, while illustrating the decadence and burgoise capitalism as corrupt and unfair. CHECK

            Stage 2: Destabilize the West by penetrating and controlling the schools, universities, newspapers, government, and military, while using the capitalist economic system against itself. CHECK

            Stage 3: Enact a CRISIS or series of CRISES where the masses will call for action, due to the failure of the capitalist system. CHECK

            Stage 4: Normalize them under Marxism/Leninism/Socialism. Eradicate those who cannot be re-educated, and eliminate the ones who helped destabilize society, as they can't be trusted to live orderly in the new society.

            If you look at the Bolshevik revolution, Stalin and Lenin had all their comrades killed, to reduce competition. They even had the photographs of the revolution doctored to eliminate their former buddies. Stalin also had all war photos taken during The Great Patriotic War Against the Fascists (WWII) censored so that none of the superior US & British Lend/Lease tanks, aircraft, tucks, and weapons could be seen by future Soviet generations. When asked to return all the hardware we supplied them with, Stalin said we could come pick it up off the battlefield if we wanted to. I would have taken him up on the offer...

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            • #81
              Patton wanted to do just that and preached about the Ruskies to the point of reorganizing the Germans under US and continue Operations util we hit Alasks.

              Funny how the Russian Never got over our invading them during WWI, even to the this Day they recall it when most Americans never heard of it.

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              • #82
                Our discussion has taken an interesting turn, but one that is really difficult to ignore.

                I'm not sure the gated community folks really understand that their "hired guns" will more or less disappear when the shtf -- they have families to protect too.

                The good news is that most, not all, of them will be reminded of this when the first few are destroyed. They might have the wherewithal to make the changes needed to survive, but the need for food and water may still make them not viable in those scenarios.

                Regarding China, another truism is that all empires must grow or die. We saw the culmination of this with the Tsars, the British, empire, followed by the Soviets. The Spaniards and Romans, etc., also experienced the expansion, stagnation, and collapse cycle -- some more gently that others, but it still happened The Chinese have a much longer history and only partly prove the exception unless one understands that the form of government changed as a result of loss of territory. That change was frequently imposed by invaders.

                The current form, which we label as Communist, has been steadily adding territory since the mid-50's. Further, the culture and long recorded history encourages long-term planning. The trend has largely been focused on immediate neighbors and those one or two countries removed.

                Does this mean the Canal and Cuba are part of the plan? Could be, to the extent that closing the canal and shipping provocateurs into the mainland causes distractions from events in Myanmar (Burma), Laos and Vietnam, followed by Cambodia and Thailand. A direct threat to US territory, probably not on their immediate planning horizon -- 20 years or so.

                For an alternative view, look at George Friedman's The Next 100 Years: A Forecast for the 21st Century and The Next Decade: Where We've Been . . . and Where We're Going . His point of view is that China will soon be seriously distracted by the polarization of the coastal communities and the interior (meaning Beijng). That by no means rules out the kinds of distractions described in the last few posts.

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                • #83
                  Joe
                  Concur, what is in the back of my mind is now the instability since the end of the "Cold" war. Not attempting the doom and gloom thing, just that "IF" the correct conditions present themselves the what ifs could be possiable. As such this type of topic with the mainstream would induce comments that "it would never happen or could happen, you need help see a professional". Then once it did the looking for a scape goat would be next priority.

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                  • #84
                    The issues we're discussing are more examples of the critical nature of the 2nd Amendment. The existence of the Amendment, coupled with vast numbers of us acting on it either unconsciously or motivated purely by sporting impulses, make a direct invasion extraordinarily unlikely.

                    ...which is why we see back-door and oblique approaches being used to demoralize, destabilize and otherwise distract us from the critically important long-term global issues.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      This is one of the most informative discussions I've seen on China ever, really. Combined with what I have learned from certain reliable sources, I do believe there is a plan to gain more territory, but not necessarily through overt military action, especially if one commands a strong presence in the global governing body:



                      If you like to follow geopolitics from a no-BS perspective, and don't have a subscription to STRATFOR, you're basically left with what's available in the attention-defecit generation press, without any real historical, political, tribal, economic, or religious background from which to understand the issues of the day. I can't recommend them enough.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by JASmith View Post
                        The issues we're discussing are more examples of the critical nature of the 2nd Amendment. The existence of the Amendment, coupled with vast numbers of us acting on it either unconsciously or motivated purely by sporting impulses, make a direct invasion extraordinarily unlikely.

                        ...which is why we see back-door and oblique approaches being used to demoralize, destabilize and otherwise distract us from the critically important long-term global issues.
                        Joe,
                        you are correct on the 2nd Amendment and the ability of the populance to deter a organized Force. Which is why in several models the consenus is that internal civil unrest would be started, exploited and then maximined, thus allowing possiabilities for explortation.
                        Do I subscribe to this camp no, but I don't discount the validity of it could happen.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by sgt_murf View Post
                          Joe,
                          you are correct on the 2nd Amendment and the ability of the populance to deter a organized Force. Which is why in several models the consenus is that internal civil unrest would be started, exploited and then maximined, thus allowing possiabilities for explortation.
                          Do I subscribe to this camp no, but I don't discount the validity of it could happen.
                          I was just going to say that the enemies of the US realize that there are more firearms here per capita than any other place on earth, despite what cherry-picked country the UN might use for their statistics. That being said, consider how they would use firearms ownership as a means to exacerbate societal unrest, what roles foreign ammunition supply play into this (price US-made ammo out of the civilian market, while pushing for more prohobitively expensive "green" military ammo), until Wolf and Barnaul are the only games in town, then cut imports over a certain period.

                          Keep in mind the current administration attempted to literally BAN all lead ammunition and fishing weights through the EPA. They just declared it a harmful substance to the environment, then faced an immediate backlash when the D.C. Capitol switchboard melted from the calls, and backed off a bit on ammo first, while still holding to the fishing weight ban, until that was shot down as well.

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                          • #88
                            Just think LR they was successful with UN to distroy suplus ammo and weapon internally thus reducing available resources. citing that it would reduce the number of rouge warlords was it successful to that end? but it does bring up points for discussion.
                            I dunno guys on that one can't really form a opinion.

                            Actually what else I found to be "funny" was that many Firearms dealers stated to me that the current Administration election actually helped their business massively.

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                            • #89
                              Yup. Obama was often cited as the NRA Salesman of the Year Awardee...

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                              • txgunner00
                                Chieftain
                                • Mar 2011
                                • 2070

                                #90
                                Originally posted by sgt_murf View Post
                                Txgunner
                                which jwilsons are your referring to??? the 5.56 LOKI? if that is the one that is definately a nice tool to have
                                Yep.
                                NRA life, GOA life, SAF, and TSRA

                                "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

                                George Mason, co-author, 2nd Amendment.

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