Midway Steel Cased Grendel Ammo pre-order ~ $7.98

[Dogue]

I checked the link. Nice price.

Too bad it's already sold out! Maybe we'll see some more of this next time.

At this rate we won't see a deal like this until the same time next year...

[JASmith]

It would be interesting to see if your link goes to the same supplier, or one that can do a better job of keeping things in stock!

I will admit, however, that a single picture can often convey tons of information!

[alligator]

Extremely comprehensive Report. Thanks for the link!

The time and rate of fire had A LOT to do with the throat erosion and barrel wear. I do wish I had 10000 rounds of Grendel ammo.

[rasp65]

An Ammo pile of 10,000 rounds starts with 1

[sneaky one]

Yikes, after all this wait-- who knows what the russkies are shipping. Could be its china lead on the inside, & outside.! I won't want any!!!!
Shop online for cheap bullet prices,.,.,== good luck otherwise.... just a disaster waiting to happen= just like a certain bbl. buy went awry.

[pinzgauer]

Read this... great article on Steel case ammo. I'm not running it in my Grendel.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bras...el-cased-ammo/

That article has some highly contested conclusions. As mentioned, heat & rate of fire with brass case would have resulted in similar. Likewise, there are carbines who have shot thousands of rounds of steel case in training/competion with no abnormal effects beyond normal AR wear.

I'd not shoot it in your expensive cut rifling competition barrel. But I see no issue in rack grade carbines. I might be concerned about wear if it's steel jacketed bullets, etc.

[txgunner00]

That article has some highly contested conclusions. As mentioned, heat & rate of fire with brass case would have resulted in similar. Likewise, there are carbines who have shot thousands of rounds of steel case in training/competion with no abnormal effects beyond normal AR wear.

I'd not shoot it in your expensive cut rifling competition barrel. But I see no issue in rack grade carbines. I might be concerned about wear if it's steel jacketed bullets, etc.

They did shoot brass cased ammo at the same rate.

As indicated by accuracy testing, the steel cased/bimetal jacketed ammunition caused accelerated wear to the inside of their respective bores. While the barrel of the Federal carbine had plenty of life left, even after 10,000 rounds at extremely high rates of fire, the Wolf and Brown Bear barrels were subjected to the same rates of fire and were completely “shot out” by 6,000 rounds.

I agree with your assertion about a competition barrel but most people that are going to spend the money on a quality barrel for that purpose are going to reload anyway. IF this ammo ever makes it to the market I personally would only use it in a budget barrel. If it had a true copper jacketed bullet similar to Hornady's steel cased ammo as opposed to a bi-metal bullet, I'd have no problem shooting it in any barrel.

[sneaky one]

Look at what the Putins are doing this year, Do u actually think this ammo will ever show up here? Don't wait for it, just to shoot thru a decent Grendel bbl. !!!!!

Get some cheap pills, reload your own ammo., it's duh easy.

Steel case is best shot then tossed, brass can be used at LEAST -12-16 times for the Grrr.

Do the math on actual costs for a long haul love affair with this cool round. Steel is not worth the wear, tear. You'll need a bbl. ext. inside of a year, extractor will be beat up, etc.

The Grrr is not an AK. - Those clunkers were meant to be abused, purposely designed so as for.

[stanc]

I was never interested in loading my own ammo.

One of my least favorite activities was picking up fired cases.

I nearly always shot the lowest price, factory ammo I could find. In 7.62x51, that was usually Winchester "white box" with steel jacketed bullets.

If it was practical for me to own a Grendel now, I'd want a carbine with chrome-lined barrel, specifically so I could shoot the Russki stuff.

[hm2 clark]

Stans right Who says we all want to shoot the steel ammo through ARs anyway?

[pinzgauer]

They did shoot brass cased ammo at the same rate.

They did not shoot brass cased with bimetal bullets. Nor Steel case with copper jacketed bullets if I recall.

Point being, the bimetal bullet combined with the extreme heat was what accelerated the wear.

Others have pointed out that even the bimetal bullets do not present a problem in typical AR usage. This was more a test of barrel steel at extreme temperatures than anything.

There are carbines used extensively with steel cased ammo in classes and competition which are showing no accelerated wear. Some with over 10k of usage.

This is a reoccurring topic on M4carbine.net, so it's beat to death for 223/5.56.

For me, it's an economics thing. If steel cased is reasonable quality, and half the price of brass it's worth using it for training/practice. But at 80% of brass cost like 223 is now, I don't fool with it, and just use PMC, PPU (Monarch), or IMI (Independence) ammo.

I'd expect any Grendel steel cased to be more along the lines of Hornady or at least PPU/Wolf Gold. Not premium bullets, but usable.

[txgunner00]

They did not shoot brass cased with bimetal bullets. Nor Steel case with copper jacketed bullets if I recall.

Point being, the bimetal bullet combined with the extreme heat was what accelerated the wear.

Others have pointed out that even the bimetal bullets do not present a problem in typical AR usage. This was more a test of barrel steel at extreme temperatures than anything.

There are carbines used extensively with steel cased ammo in classes and competition which are showing no accelerated wear. Some with over 10k of usage.

This is a reoccurring topic on M4carbine.net, so it's beat to death for 223/5.56.

For me, it's an economics thing. If steel cased is reasonable quality, and half the price of brass it's worth using it for training/practice. But at 80% of brass cost like 223 is now, I don't fool with it, and just use PMC, PPU (Monarch), or IMI (Independence) ammo.

I'd expect any Grendel steel cased to be more along the lines of Hornady or at least PPU/Wolf Gold. Not premium bullets, but usable.

I don't disagree with anything you said here. Does anyone produce brass cased/ bi-metal bullet ammo in .223? I don't know of any myself. Hornady is the only steel cased/ copper jacketed ammo I know of but there may be others.

Maybe they could have made it more prominent in the report but they did point out the difference between the two bullets. I think the problem is too many people don't have a good understanding of this and just repeat what they read on the internet or repeat what they hear at the gun show. Also, 99.9% of all rifles produced will never see that kind of abuse.

I current prices (approx. $.35/rnd vs. $.28/rnd), buying brass does make a lot of sense especially if you add in the value of the spent casings. As for me, I'm a brass rat and I can load for under $.20/rnd. If steel cased ammo ever gets back down to that range, I'll probably start buying it again. I won't hold my breath though.

[joker31]

I wouldn't buy a barrel or a bolt that's made of softer material than the soft steel they use for the cases, it would just be a waste of money to me. That being said, I have looked at my barrels (Mainly my Kreiger in 5.56) with a borescope and have only seen scratches from carbon and scratches from Cleaning supplies, never from steel (Even Bear) I photographed my chamber in the armory and overlayed it with one from after firing steel (500 rounds) and did not see any scratches even after using magniflux and dyechem. I we had a very full service armory and had all the tools to check everything, no problems.

That being said, I only see its worth for hunting because I lose a lot of brass in the field and dont remember when I lost a single piece at the range. Lost 30 rounds in the field this year, even tried painting it orange.

[pinetreebbs]

I was never interested in loading my own ammo.

One of my least favorite activities was picking up fired cases. ...

You need a Nut Wizard to pick up your empty cases. The 11" is the best for most common cartridges. It comes with a de-loader that hangs on the edge of a plastic bucket and spreads the wires to drops the empty cases into the bucket. Bo bending over keeps my bad back happy.