Factory 123 SST or A/A 120 TSX for Bullwinkle?

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  • Factory 123 SST or A/A 120 TSX for Bullwinkle?

    So the stars have aligned in my favor twice in that I was able to find both locally so I'm back in business this year. I've yet to shoot either to see which my tube likes better and for the price ($2.25 a shot) I hope the A/A TSX's don't disappoint.

    I have to ask the Hoard which has had better terminal effect on game? The SST is a new animal to me and most of the results posted isn't for factory loaded ammo.

    I anticipate taking/would prefer shots with 200m and would pass on anything beyond 300m.
  • rebelsoul
    Warrior
    • Jan 2014
    • 156

    #2
    I'm "all in" for the factory 123sst next season. I had this discussion with the Horde recently. I had a bullet explode, but I was closer than most shots will ever be. Even with the exploded bullet the whiteails boiler room was shredded.
    "When you have to shoot... Shoot! Don't talk." Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez a.k.a. "The Rat".

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    • montana
      Chieftain
      • Jun 2011
      • 3209

      #3
      If your referring Bullwinkle to hunting moose I would definitely use the Barnes 120 TSX. Either one will work for deer but I still prefer the Barnes bullet for its penetration especially for bigger deer and game animals . The Grendel 2 reloading manual explains a lot about which bullets to use for different types of game at different ranges and has been right on with my hunting experiences when using the 6.5 Grendel.
      Last edited by montana; 05-04-2014, 08:23 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by montana View Post
        If your referring Bullwinkle to hunting moose I would definitely use the Barnes 120 TSX. Either one will work for deer but I still prefer the Barnes bullet for its penetration especially for bigger deer and game animals . The Grendel 2 reloading manual explains a lot about which bullets to use for different types of game at different ranges and has been right on with my hunting experiences when using the 6.5 Grendel.
        There is even a comment or two in both Bob Stokes' introduction and in the discussion of game and bullets for those who have the temerity to take on a moose with the Grendel.

        Also, you might want to look at Post #15 in the thread "N530 and long bullets"

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        • #5
          As I recall you have a 18" barrel and had trouble with AA ammo last year. I suspect the Barnes will penetrate better. Consider Percision Firearms Barnes ammo if those fail to work out for you.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by JASmith View Post
            There is even a comment or two in both Bob Stokes' introduction and in the discussion of game and bullets for those who have the temerity to take on a moose with the Grendel.

            Also, you might want to look at Post #15 in the thread "N530 and long bullets"
            Thanks for the link - I'm WAY behind the times on reloading for the Grendel. I really like the look of the Lapua 140gr Naturalist.





            Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the A/A 120gr TSX what Mark LaRue used on his Elk?
            Last edited by Guest; 05-05-2014, 12:23 AM. Reason: Pic added

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            • 81police
              Warrior
              • Feb 2013
              • 286

              #7
              AA 120 TSX all the way. I've used both the TSX and the SST on large feral hogs, the TSX, in my limited opinion, is a much better performer on thicker hided game. Not to say the SST isn't a great bullet, but the TSX has a great track record in my small book.
              John 11:25-26

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              • rasp65
                Warrior
                • Mar 2011
                • 660

                #8
                Feets I don't think you will get acceptable performance velocity wise as the Naturalis is a very long bullet. I shot a moose in 09 using a 375 H&H but I used the lightest bullet 235 gr and lower velocity 2600 fps. The bullet passed through both lungs and the moose was down within 2 min. That same year my cousins stepson shot an 850 lb bull with a 243 no problem. and there were some comparisons about the Grendel and the 243 in another post. I talked to a lot of other hunters and most seem to believe that although big are not necessarily hard to kill if you can get a broadside shot. Most of the moose I saw that year would be standing broadside before turning away. If you are still and shoot it through both lungs it will stand there until it bleeds to death, but if there is a lot of commotion they will move away. In my case people were piling out of the truck and then my sub permitee started sailing shots at it so naturally it moved off but only about 30 yds close to a skidder trail. When my sub gets his permit I plan on using the 120TSX.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rasp65 View Post
                  Feets I don't think you will get acceptable performance velocity wise as the Naturalis is a very long bullet. I shot a moose in 09 using a 375 H&H but I used the lightest bullet 235 gr and lower velocity 2600 fps. The bullet passed through both lungs and the moose was down within 2 min. That same year my cousins stepson shot an 850 lb bull with a 243 no problem...
                  We are looking forward to seeing what the OP learns when he goes into the field!

                  The Naturalis literature indicates that the Naturalis will expand at velocities as low as 1650 FPS.

                  Even a 22 rimfire will kill on a properly placed broadside shot. Even so, an awful lot of heavy animals are reported to have been lost by .243 shooters. The reason is that even premium bullets are too light to create a blood channel that will regularly cause the animal to faint before it can run more than about 100 yards.

                  Going heavier is better, the 235 gr bullet at 2600 fps is in the middle of the zone for ideal bullet weight. I remember from my father's 375 H&H experiences and mine with the .378Weatherby Magnum that the 235 grain bullet was viewed as a 'varmint' bullet but, in retrospect, was designed for light-skinned animals. The 2600 fps is likely slow enough that the bullet expanded nicely and the recoil was much milder than a full-house 300 grain load would have been.

                  A 140 grain lead-free hunting bullet is on the light side of the bullets suggested for moose in this paper: Ideal Bullet Weight. The weights come from expecting that the 'perfect broadside' is not always available, but that one can frequently find the animal within 30 degrees of being perfect. The angle adds thickness to hide, muscle, ribs, and gristle that stand between the bullet and the vital zone. Those considerations, coupled with the low velocity, is why the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook Vol 2 mentions moose more in passing than as a recommended practice.

                  It can be done, and are pleased when folks are able to show results, but like with the 6.5x55 and .260 Remington, we are pressing the limits of reliable game anchoring when we go to the larger animals. Shot placement becomes critical in these circumstances. The tame recoil of the two more classic cartridges and the mild recoil of the Grendel, make placing a good shot much easier.
                  Last edited by Guest; 05-05-2014, 02:42 PM.

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                  • rasp65
                    Warrior
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 660

                    #10
                    JA What I found with 160 Hornady bullets is that the bearing surface was inside the case mouth leaving it unsupported when seated to mag length. The Hornady is 1.243" long and the Naturalis is 1.291" long. I know i can seat it out farther if I single feed and get some extra room for powder.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rasp65 View Post
                      JA What I found with 160 Hornady bullets is that the bearing surface was inside the case mouth leaving it unsupported when seated to mag length. The Hornady is 1.243" long and the Naturalis is 1.291" long. I know i can seat it out farther if I single feed and get some extra room for powder.
                      I also don't like leaving the lip of the neck unsupported -- too many chances for feeding grief.

                      Nentheless, check post #1 of this thread: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...nge-of-bullets using the Lapua Naturalis. I do know that he got pretty good velocities using the right powder and keeping the bullets seated to slightly less than magazine length. PM RickOshay to see if he had any trouble seating these bullets to magazine length. He might post his findings in this thread too.

                      Also, there was a long discussion about subsonic action-cycling loads where the 160 gr Hornady played a prominent role: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...light=subsonic. Here the objective was to get the action to cycle while keeping the round subsonic. It is a long thread and started two years ago, so I don't remember enough of the details to see if anyone else made the same observation as you did.

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                      • rickOshay
                        Warrior
                        • Apr 2012
                        • 784

                        #12
                        Originally posted by rasp65 View Post
                        JA What I found with 160 Hornady bullets is that the bearing surface was inside the case mouth leaving it unsupported when seated to mag length. The Hornady is 1.243" long and the Naturalis is 1.291" long. I know i can seat it out farther if I single feed and get some extra room for powder.

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                        • rickOshay
                          Warrior
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 784

                          #13
                          Same is true for the 120 gr GMX. It is long at 1.400"


                          But the bearing surface extends just beyond the bands. When seated to 2.260" for my chamber, the full diameter is present in the neck. But so are the bands.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks all - I have to admit that I'm way behind the curve with reloading. I put everything on the back burner when components cot scarce last year. I've got a ways to go before I start playing with trusted loads never mind experimenting with projo's. Unfortunately I haven't found a reputable custom loader to build up some ammo for me locally. Shipping ammo here is a royal PITA.

                            I'm going to take her to the range soon to see what she likes better and will report back.

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