Who Beat The M4A1?

[Capt. Morgan]

An article from the August 20 Washington Times:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/19/armys-quits-tests-after-competing-rifle-outperform/

So, what was "Rifle C" that outlasted the M4A1?

A piston Grendel maybe?

[NugginFutz]

I doubt it since, from what I read in the article, it appears the weapons were all firing the same ammunition.

[Variable]

I get the impression it's mostly noise from folks trying to get the money, and politicians wanting to help out friends and donors.

[stanc]

"None of the vendors were able to meet the requirements to pass into phase three," Ostrowski said. "I want to be very clear -- none of the vendors met the minimum requirements to allow them to phase three. The Army is not canceling the Individual Carbine competition. The Army is in a position where it must conclude the Individual Carbine competition, because none of the competitors met the minimum requirement to pass into the next phase."

The eight competitors in the competition included Adcor Defense, Beretta, Colt, Fabrique Nationale, Heckler & Koch, Lewis Machine & Tool, Remington and Troy. Those competitors all passed phase one of the competition, but did not pass the second phase.

http://www.army.mil/article/105676/I...ith_no_winner/

The phase II contenders were the FN FNAC, the Heckler & Koch HK416A5, a modified variant of the Remington ACR, the Adcor Defense BEAR Elite, the Beretta ARX-160, and the Colt Enhanced M4.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Carbine

I'd put my money on "Rifle C" being the HK416.

[joker31]

Yep or the lwrc which I know they have been looking at them as well.

[Keep The Change]

I wish we at least knew what the list was.
Would the SCAR16 be in that competition?

I'm fine with the gas system but I'm a casual shooter and clean after every outing. A piston type system has to be the direction the next weapon should go, especially in the fine sand conditions of the ME.


So we could guess the list:
LWRC
HK416
Sig?
SCAR

[Keep The Change]

I doubt it since, from what I read in the article, it appears the weapons were all firing the same ammunition.

Yeah it says M855A1 was the round. The competitors complained because of the switch to this round.

Here is an article on the round. I don't know much about the round, but it doesn't look that great.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/uncategorized/m855a1-should-it-be-the-new-round-for-soldiers-and-marines/undefined

[stanc]

I wish we at least knew what the list was.
Would the SCAR16 be in that competition?

I'm fine with the gas system but I'm a casual shooter and clean after every outing. A piston type system has to be the direction the next weapon should go, especially in the fine sand conditions of the ME.

So we could guess the list:
LWRC
HK416
Sig?
SCAR

Why guess? See the second quote in post #4.

[Keep The Change]

Thanks stanc. I glossed over the second excerpt.

[Keep The Change]

I've not looked into the FNAC, what is the diff between that and the SCAR?

[LRRPF52]

The 416 is not without problems. Same with the SCAR. The SCAR might have a higher MTBF for the operating system, but not the furniture. The 416 is pretty heavy compared to the M4.

The M855A1 is going to cause problems in any gun, since it is over the edge in pressures, especially when ambient temps are higher. The sharp steel noses trash the heck out of the feed ramps too, and you won't see any reports on what it does to SAW's-major problems there.

They are wasting way too much time on something that doesn't need fixing though. If you look at the numbers of casualties we produced with belt-fed 7.62 compared to 5.56 NATO, it would open a lot of people's eyes. SAW's are next on the food chain of killing.

All that is needed for the M4 program is to go with several Block II variants for the JRDF-type units, and issue 14.5" guns to certain duty positions, and 11.5" guns to a lot of others. Integrate some of the electronic aiming and illumination systems with unitized power sources, get the guns streamlined again, discontinue any black components, and go FDE on everything. Purge the 3-round burst mechanisms entirely, and get DMR triggers in the guns for Infantry Squads with those duty positioned blasters, with accurate barrels for the DM's and training for the armorers on how to replace them for an accuracy build.

The real effort needs to be on what the next LMG is going to be, and where we want to go with DM Carbines, especially training, ammunition, and then carbine improvement.

[45r]

I would speculate that the HK was it also.
They helped make the UK L85A2 bullpup one of the most reliable weapons of its kind.
Its predecessor was lacking but short rifle's are considered the weapon of the future by some.
There engineering and build quality is said to be second to none but the price is expensive.
The M4 is more reliable than people give it credit for.

[stanc]

I've not looked into the FNAC, what is the diff between that and the SCAR?

I think the FNAC is just a SCAR with non-reciprocating operating handle. However, I don't know for certain if there are any other differences.

See http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/scar-family/fnac/

[Buck2732]

I would speculate that the HK was it also.
They helped make the UK L85A2 bullpup one of the most reliable weapons of its kind.
Its predecessor was lacking but short rifle's are considered the weapon of the future by some.
There engineering and build quality is said to be second to none but the price is expensive.
The M4 is more reliable than people give it credit for.

The L1A1 was built as cheep as it could be. Then HK came along and made it the way it should have been from the outset. Yep I carried one, the mid life improvements helped but not enough.